USPS

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Funman1
 
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Re: USPS

Post by Funman1 »

Call or chat with them (digikey)

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ytram99
 
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Re: USPS

Post by ytram99 »

I hate taking the time for issues like this, but I'm compelled to write. Shipping costs from Adafruit are outrageous.

You talk about cost of delivery problems with USPS but I wonder if you know how much business you are losing. I don't think I'm atypical. I buy electronics from about 6 companies. All ship via USPS except Adafruit. One company sells much the same products as Adafruit. They also have excellent tutorials and help. If I find the same or similar product from Adafruit, and another source, I always buy from the other source. Why? Because of the shipping. I don't mind paying more for good support and innovative products, but for shipping - No!

I wonder if this "Google Trusted Store" feature has something to do with the lack of USPS shipping. Personally, I'm not impressed with stuff like Google Trusted Store. I figure we are paying for those unneeded and unnecessary services. If they are the cause of no USPS please drop them like a hot potato.

adafruit
 
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Re: USPS

Post by adafruit »

thanks for the feedback, there are tons of choices out there :) if USPS is the option you prefer and it's not an option for your location make sure to visit digikey, they for-sure have a postal option and stock our stuff, if they don't you can request it:
http://www.adafru.it/digikey

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: USPS

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

ytram99 wrote:I wonder if you know how much business you are losing.
We're a web business..

We know the number of times every page is viewed per day/hour/minute. We know the average number of page views per sale for each product. We know how many items are added to shopping carts, how many carts go to a complete sale, and how many are abandoned. We know how many new accounts are created, the average number of page views per sale for an account, and how often/how long people with accounts come back.

We also know how those numbers changed when we switched away from USPS shipping: they improved. Every single measure of business success derived from the data says that decision was good for the community as a whole.

It turns out that USPS shipping is a "globally sub-optimal local optimization" aka: "making things better for N people by making things worse for M other people" with values around N=1 and M=20.

There are *lots* of GSOLOs we don't pursue. PT and Ladyada have explicitly (and repeatedly) said "no" to people ready to write checks with lots of trailing zeros for ad space and sponsored links here in the forums.. most of whom have left making remarks about our lack of business sense for "leaving money on the table".

You're presenting the N=1 case, and we get it.. any rational actor will prefer to pay less if the expected value received stays pretty much the same. You have to crank the numbers (like we do) to see the M=20 case, where a small reduction in the expected value turns out to make things a lot worse for a significant number of people.

People tell us we're turning down money every day (thankfully at a longer distance since we've gotten good at enforcing access restrictions), and we could keep a running total of the numbers on the contracts/checks if we wanted to.

We don't. Our compass doesn't swing toward "mo money". PT and Ladyada read the numbers and do what in their judgement is best for the community as a whole.

Their track record on that is pretty darn good, as demonstrated by the numbers. Adafruit was listed as one of the 30 fastest-growing companies in NYC, and the numbers we had then would be a really bad day by our current standards.

markpet49
 
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Re: USPS

Post by markpet49 »

Just placed an order, but that won't happen again until you offer an option for shipping that costs less than $9 for about 6 ounces worth of goods.

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Funman1
 
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Re: USPS

Post by Funman1 »

Again check out digikey.com
They sell adafruit stuff and offer $3.00 shipping..
I use them all the time now...

evilkitty
 
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Re: USPS

Post by evilkitty »

Were the USPS issues with international or shipping domestic? I can understand if you are looking at international shipping being better with UPS, i have never had issues with anything going through USPS (domestic)
Are you willing to consider enabling USPS (with tracking) for domestic shipping? At least for orders under $50 (or $20)

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: USPS

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

The problems are both international and domestic. We have screenshots of representative issues in this blog post: https://blog.adafruit.com/2014/03/14/us ... rbusiness/

It doesn't happen in all cases, but was common enough to be expensive for us, and the surveys of USPS performance have only shown more decline since we stopped using them.

The more dramatic examples of problems look like this: http://kutv.com/news/get-gephardt/usps- ... ance-claim

gapdev
 
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Re: USPS

Post by gapdev »

I'm one of those (in California) that Adafruit allows for USPS shipping.

I have to say that I have more problems with UPS than with the Postal Service. The problems with UPS are mostly with the drivers. If they don't feel like delivering that day or the regular guy is off and the substitute driver doesn't know how to get in the gate, then we don't receive our deliveries until the next day.

Also, packages delivered via UPS generally always look like someone drove over them. This, and the fact that the UPS driver either throws the packages over the fence or simply drops them on the ground, not caring if he damages anything or not since he's not responsible.

And, for the past year, UPS went from delivering between 11:00 - 12:00pm, to 2:00 - 4:00pm. Post office always before 1:00pm.

If I need something as fast as possible, I choose UPS 2 day or Priority Mail if cheaper. Otherwise, UPS ground. Have never had any issues with Priority Mail.

Kenny

EVRE
 
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Re: USPS

Post by EVRE »

A post about shipping USPS that is not locked. It is very clear that adafruit does not like having this discussion.

It has been well over a year since they halted USPS deliver as an option to my area and I do not see it becoming an option as management has pointed out that they think USPS has gotten worse since they halted using USPS.

This is such a frequent topic there, should just be a sticky at the top of the forum.
We do not ship USPS because we do not believe they are a viable option for our customers.
If you want an Adafruit product and want it shipped by USPS, buy it from a company that trust shipping by USPS
Not a very inspiring message, but thats how I read it between the lines.

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Funman1
 
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Re: USPS

Post by Funman1 »

Digikey DESTROYS Adafruit shipping.
I placed a Digikey order last Friday night at 7PM Pacific. No rush orders, nothing special, Just standard USPS shipping to here in CA.
BOOM I have my package this Monday morning.. Yeah REALLY They ship faster than Amazon.
Forget Adafruit shipping, get your Adafruit stuff from Digikey plain and simple.

This is how Adafruit shipping works.
I place an Order on Thursday night 5PM
Adafruit put's it in a box but they always miss the Friday pick up so my order sits in the Adafruit building all weekend.
Then it get's picked up Monday afternoonish.
Then 3 day USPS shipping means I get my order Thursday...
Yeah, 1 WEEK after I place an order!!

Adafruit has some amazing products and support, I LOVE them!!
But their shipping has to be some of the worst I have ever seen.
I've actually had orders placed at the same time/day from China, and the China order beats them and gets here first!
Then gosh forbid if the Monday happens to be a holiday!!!!

So yeah bottom line, go Digikey ALL THE WAY!
I get my orders less than 62ish hours later, and Digikey is even located in GRAND FORKS, ND 58201
So it's not like they are unfairly close to CA or anything.....

Digikey understands shipping and does it DANG WELL, Adafruit does not.
The sooner you realize this and use someone else to ship the happier you will be.
I used to get all mad at their shipping and finally just gave up...
YMMV
:)

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: USPS

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

EVRE wrote:A post about shipping USPS that is not locked. It is very clear that adafruit does not like having this discussion.
We don't mind talking about it per se. A few people have asked why we have the policy, we've explained our reasons, and they've said something to the effect of, "oh, I didn't know that." They may or may not choose to buy things from us, but it's a legitimate exchange of thoughts. We're happy to do that.

We also understand that sometimes people need to vent. It isn't our favorite thing in the world, but we'd rather have it happen out in the open than feed the impression we're afraid to let people say anything negative (see previous post).

Not big fans of the "assertion framed in the form of a question" rhetorical technique though, or the "I don't care about your reasons, I'm going to keep pushing until you do what I want" mindset that tends to go with it.

Part of that is a byproduct of general American business practices over the past few decades, which have taught people that companies roll over if someone complains, often regardless of the merits of the actual complaint. It's mostly a symptom of companies with middle managers who want to avoid conflict more than they want to stand up for the company's principles.

We aren't that kind of company. If I want to know what Ladyada and PT think about something, I ask them, and they tell me. I know what they have to say on the subject of USPS shipping (I swear PT can discuss performance zipcode by zipcode), and I handle these conversations so they can spend time being an electrical engineer and a shipping/business maven.

These threads are also where we negotiate the Adafruit customer base. We select our customers much the same way customers select us as a vendor. We know we'll never capture the "why spend $25 for an Arduino when you can get a Chinese clone for $3?" crowd, and frankly we don't want them. They generate little revenue but consume an enormous amount of support resources if you let them.

Shipping-cost threads are a few rungs higher up that same ladder. The people inclined to complain about $13 shipping when a $6.99 alternative exists would complain about $6.99 shipping if they knew of a $2.99 alternative. We've had people post to publically shame us for not putting things in an envelope and sending them with a 40-odd cent stamp.

We don't have any grudge against those folks, but we know we aren't a good economic match for them. Our business position is, "this is the quality we choose to deliver, and this is what it costs." The business position of people who post about shipping cost is, "I want this price, so lower your quality." Our answer to that is, "no," delivered concisely or in excruciating detail depending on how hard a person wants to push. But we will not let the quality of our products and services be dictated by people willing to sacrifice quality to lower a price.

People generally don't understand the business principle, "your customer base is the people who give you most of your money." If you cater to the people willing to accept lower quality for a lower price, those are the people who decide where your business will go. If most of your money comes from advertising and the sale of customer personal information, those are the people who steer your company.

We make most of our money selling products to people willing to pay for the quality we want to deliver. What's good for them is good for us as a business, and generally speaking the things that are good for our business also tend to be good for those customers.

As things stand now, USPS shipping has more downside for our customers and our company than UPS shipping. Since we removed that option, the market has punished us with double digit year over year sales growth every month, significantly higher customer satisfaction, about a 90% drop in shipping-related complaints, and maybe $100,000 less in hardware replacements and shipping reimbursement costs annually.

We also get complaints here in the forum. Those have dropped from a couple per week to maybe one a month. We're reasonably confident that lack of a $6.99 shipping option won't put us out of business any time soon, and that we aren't missing/ignoring a massive swell of discontent in our customer base.

I do admit to a morbid fascination in watching people move the boundary of our imminent business collapse farther and farther out. It used to be "do you know how many sales you're losing to cart balking?" Yes. It's lower. "Do you know how many people look at a page then decide not to buy?" Yes. The absolute sales and sales per page view numbers have gone up. I think the latest was, "you can't know how many people don't even view your pages because they do business elsewhere," which is true, but we do know the percentages of new customers per month and repeat sales to existing customers have gone up, and are amazingly good for our market segment. I'm curious to see what will be next.

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: USPS

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

Funman1 wrote:Digikey DESTROYS Adafruit shipping.
I should hope so.

They're the fifth largest component distributor in the world (about sixty times bigger than us by headcount) and can afford shipping contracts we can't. Economies of scale rock when you can get them.

If that works to your benefit, jump on it.

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Funman1
 
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Re: USPS

Post by Funman1 »

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