x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:10 am

Hi Brian,
configuration of J7 in mainboard : Pin1 => Pad B of x0xi0 board
Pin2 => nothing
Pin3 => Pin3 of J7 I/O board
Test1 => Effect Off Pin1 J7 mainboard => 0 V ; sound of mix output with right volume.
Test2 => Effect On Distorsion On Pin1 => 0.53 V ; sound of mix output higher with effect than test 1
Test3 => Effect On Overdrive On Pin1 => 0 V ; sound of mix output very very very low.

I have checked many times to be shure.
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:49 pm

It sounds like you have everything working except the overdrive.
If you could record a few seconds and post the results I can confirm if it's sounds correct.

As for the readings at J7 Pin1 are you using a voltmeter? I know you said you don't have an oscilloscope. Since the audio signal is AC and pretty low level I think you're readings are not accurate. The signal at J7 Pin 1 should be exactly the same regardless of whether the effect is on or off, or which type of effect is selected. This is because this connection point is before the effect. Just to verify recheck the two points below to make sure you don't have these hooked up backwards.

1. x0xb0x mainboard J7 Pin 1 goes to x0xi0 board pad B.
2. x0xb0x I/O board J7 Pin 1 goes to x0xi0 board pad A.

If this is OK here's what to check next.

1. Make sure IC301 is installed in correct orientation.
2. Check voltage at IC301 Pin 8. Should be ~12V.
3. Check voltage at IC303 Pin 3. Should be ~6V.
4. Check voltage at the connection of SW303 Pin 2 and R307. Should be ~6V.
5. Check or listen to signal at Pin 1 of IC301. You should have a loud distorted signal.
6. Check or listen to signal at Pin 7 of IC301. You should have a loud distorted signal (similar to step 6 but some high frequency now filtered).
7. Check or listen to signal at Pin 4 of SW302. It should sounds exactly same as step.

The pin configuration for the toggle switches is indicated on the PCB by a '1' next to pin 1 on the PCB.
As viewed on the last page of the install manual it looks like this....

1 4
2 5
3 6
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:55 pm

Oh yes i have to mesure in Ac voltage ... ok i understand !! Thanks for your patience and sorry for my lack of knowledge ...
I check that ...
Thanks Brian !
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:20 pm

ok this is that i have tested =>

1. x0xb0x mainboard J7 Pin 1 goes to x0xi0 board pad B. OK ~ 3.08 V
2. x0xb0x I/O board J7 Pin 1 goes to x0xi0 board pad A. OK ~ 3.18 V

If this is OK here's what to check next.

1. Make sure IC301 is installed in correct orientation. OK
2. Check voltage at IC301 Pin 8. Should be ~12V. ~3.63 V
3. Check voltage at IC303 Pin 3. Should be ~6V. ~2.80 V
4. Check voltage at the connection of SW303 Pin 2 and R307. Should be ~6V. ~1.20V
5. Check or listen to signal at Pin 1 of IC301. You should have a loud distorted signal. Nothing.
6. Check or listen to signal at Pin 7 of IC301. You should have a loud distorted signal (similar to step 6 but some high frequency now filtered). Nothing
7. Check or listen to signal at Pin 4 of SW302. It should sounds exactly same as step. Nothing

Every functions are working correctly appart overdrive. As you can read, Voltage are not good :-(.
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:56 pm

OK, at least you know there's a problem and we can troubleshoot it. You'll appreciate it more when it's all done and working. :wink:

If the 12V supply is not good then the distortion effect is problably not right either.
Check the voltage accross pad D and pad C.

pad D is the output of the 12V power supply.
pad C is ground.

it should ready ~12V.
if it doesn't check and make sure the following capacitors are in the correct orientation and value:
C329 1uF, (+) towards top of pcb
C330 10uF, (+) towards top of pcb

check to make sure TM302 is the 100 Ohm trimpot (it says 101 on the side of it).
check to make sure R350 (150 ohms) and R351 (1.24k ohms) are the correct value.
check to make sure the connection sis step 6 of teh install manual are done correctly.
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:57 pm

OK, at least you know there's a problem and we can troubleshoot it. You'll appreciate it more when it's all done and working. :wink:

If the 12V supply is not good then the distortion effect is problably not right either.
Check the voltage accross pad D and pad C.

pad D is the output of the 12V power supply.
pad C is ground.

it should ready ~12V.
if it doesn't check and make sure the following capacitors are in the correct orientation and value:
C329 1uF, (+) towards top of pcb
C330 10uF, (+) towards top of pcb

check to make sure TM302 is the 100 Ohm trimpot (it says 101 on the side of it).
check to make sure R350 (150 ohms) and R351 (1.24k ohms) are the correct value.
check to make sure the connections in step 6 of the install manual are done correctly.
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:58 am

Ok Brian, 'im not afraid by this debugging, thanks to you i will resolve this little problem and it's a good exercice for full kit building ;-) !!
I'll check these points tonight !!
I really appreciate your precious help and like this i improve my electronical knowledge ... and my english too ;-)

All the best and have a good week-end Brian :-) !
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:41 pm

Ok, results of test :

it should ready ~12V.------------------------------> No ~0V but continious 12 V
if it doesn't check and make sure the following capacitors are in the correct orientation and value:
C329 1uF, (+) towards top of pcb ------------------------------> OK
C330 10uF, (+) towards top of pcb ------------------------------> OK

check to make sure TM302 is the 100 Ohm trimpot (it says 101 on the side of it).------------------------------> OK
check to make sure R350 (150 ohms) and R351 (1.24k ohms) are the correct value.------------------------------> OK
check to make sure the connections in step 6 of the install manual are done correctly.------------------------------>OK

But if i check on D42 and R179 i havn't ~12 V ! Is it normal ?
I continue my Grail Quest :-)
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:56 am

About D42 and R179 those readings can vary somewhat. The voltage accross D42 (same as C5) could be anywhere between 10V and 15V DC. To test the x0xb0x power supply's you should check these points.

1. IC23 Pin 7: 5.33V
2. IC23 Pin 1: ~11.9V
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, so it seems like the 12V supply on the x0xi0 board is working OK because you have 12V at Pad D.
Recheck the voltage again at IC301 Pin 8. This has to be 12V since it is connected directly to pad D which is the output of the 12V supply. Before you measured 3.63V at IC301 Pin 8, but this time you measured 12V at Pad D so one of them is wrong.

Can you upload a sample of what your x0b0x sounds like with the distortion on and then with it off?
If the x0xb0x sounds ok with the effect off and it sounds ok with distortion on then that will help with troubleshooting the overdrive.
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:54 pm

Ok Brian, i've recorded samples as you ask me.
First one x0x without effect => http://dl.free.fr/t6Lb2DrPb
and second one with distortion => http://dl.free.fr/vuHhcvryc

I've realized that volume of mix out is higher without effect, there's a lot of noize in distortion mode and when x0x not start. Even distortion is working, i think that i have a problem with twice. Filter seems to be ok.
Another thing, when i measure voltage in alternativ mode i have to take ground, in C pad ? can you explain me with precision the method to mesure in alternativ mode.

OK, so it seems like the 12V supply on the x0xi0 board is working OK because you have 12V at Pad D.

I've got 12V but in continious voltage only not in alternativ.
But i'm afraid to make a mistake when i measure alternativ voltage, please specify me where i take the ground.

Thanks a lot.
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:10 pm

There's a lot of noise in the distortion. Yours does sound more noisy than typical. It can get very noisy if you have the Amount control and the Tone controls all the way up. When the tone control is at the maximum I have left a lot of high frequency content so the high frequency is not filtered much. Also, there is a lot of gain in the circuit. Try turning the Amount control and Overdrive control to 50% position and see if it's much better, this is equivilent to the max settings on typical distortion units.

Other than the noise the distortion sounds correct. It's a very compressed sound with a bit of a hole in the midrange frequencies. The overdrive is more gentle and more even frequency response.

About testing the voltages with DC or AC setting you should be doing all voltage measurements with your multimeter in DC mode. The only signal that you need to test that are AC is the actual audio signals, and this should really not be done with a meter but instead by using an oscilloscope or listening to the signal. I know you don't have an oscilloscope so you can actually make a cable to plug into your mixer and listen to the signal at various connections.

Do these tests first:

1. Put your multimeter in DC Volts mode.
2. Check again IC301 pin 8. it should be 12V
3. Check IC303 pin 3. It should be 6V.
4. Check SW303 pin 2. It should be 6V.

If this is OK then do this...
1. Get an extra cable and cut off the end so that you can plug one end into your mixer and use the other end to probe the circuit.

Image
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2. Connect a capacitor to the center conductor of the cable. Any capacitor will do, 1uF/10uF/100uF the value is not important. Connect the (-) side to the cable. You can use another type of capacitor too if that's all you have... tantalum or polyester type is ok. This is just to eliminate any DC bias from the signal. If you don't have an extra capacitor it is ok not to use it.
Next, connect a piece of wire to the shield...

Image
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Connect the wire from the shield to an extra pad C on the x0xi0 PCB.

Image
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Now you can use the other end of the capacitor to probe and listen to the audio signal.

Image
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now you can plug the other end of this cable into your mixer so you can actually hear the signal as you probe around.

1. Listen to signal at pad B. You should have signal here because the Distortion works. This point is before the overdrive/distortion circuit.
2. Select Overdrive with 'Type' switch.
3. Probe the signal at IC310 pin 1. You should hear the distorted signal at high volume.
4. If you hear good signal in step 3 then probe again and listen for signal at IC301 pin 7. you should still hear distorted signal at good high volume.
5. If you hear good signal in step 4 then probe the signal at pad A. This is the output of the overdrive and you should hear the signal here too.

Let me know how this works out.
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:50 pm

Hi Brian !
1. Put your multimeter in DC Volts mode.
2. Check again IC301 pin 8. it should be 12V Ok, 12 V
3. Check IC303 pin 3. It should be 6V. NoK => Pin3:12V, Pin1:6V, Pin2:0V
4. Check SW303 pin 2. It should be 6V Ok => 6V

Now i solder my probe !
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:51 pm

1. Put your multimeter in DC Volts mode.
2. Check again IC301 pin 8. it should be 12V Ok, 12 V
3. Check IC303 pin 3. It should be 6V. NoK => Pin3:12V, Pin1:6V, Pin2:0V
4. Check SW303 pin 2. It should be 6V Ok => 6V


This is all correct. So far so good. The problem must be specifically in the overdrive circuit. We will pinpoint the problem further when you finish the other tests.
bcbox
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by kroutshev on Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:00 pm

You're absolutly right :-) !! I have found the problem !! The bad guy is IC301, with magic probe i have tested as you've explained me and no signal on pin7 !! I have removed OP275 from his socket and replace by another one from 2nd kit and same thing :? !! Pin 1 ok but no sound on pin7 !! i remove part by the second OP275 of second kit and allelulia sound is coming :D ! I've got signal on pin7 and from mixer out too !!!
I'm so happy i have played a live perform with 303 and replace by x0xi0 and my machinedrum !! very good sound and wide sound range with your kit !! I'm very very impatient to have full kit :D !!
Now i havn't OP275 for second kit but we'll see that when you send me top panel kit !!
Brian a huge thank for your patience and your very good advises and debugging tools.
Bye, it's time for me to sleep !!
kroutshev
 
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Re: x0xi0 IO & Overdrive - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:49 pm

great. I'm glad you fixed it. I'd love to hear a sample of the overdrive to hear how it sounds.
I will make a note to send you the OP275's with the top panel kit.
bcbox
 
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