Let's fix the Drawdio together!

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guiyoforward
 
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Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

If you look for drawdio on these forums, you will find sad stories of BANNED performance. I beleive the current Adafruit's version of the Drawdio is not up to par, and it will NOT work as the wonderful videos you see around the internet. But if you follow the advice in here, which I collected in this and other forums (and whatever else you find you can add to this thread) you may have an experience a bit better - there are a few bits missing in the documentation (yes, even in the 40 page PDF):
-Sharpen the pencil on the "wrong" end - i.e., the one covered with paint. In this way, you can attach the Thumbtack making sure it makes contact with the grphite core.
-Sharpen the pencil before mounting the pcb.
-The included pencil is not good enough. Try a carpenter's pencil, or spmething more than 2B - say, from 3B to 8B. I will probably get a charcoal sketch set because...
-You need to draw VERY THICK LINES, going over and over the same bits, pressing very hard, to get anything going. Do NOT THINK you can take the drawdio, draw some lines and get audio. It will be hard, and note that younger kits will NOT be able to do this on their own. Look at this picture as a reference:
https://learn.adafruit.com/system/asset ... 1396821715
The D R and A have been drawn over many many times with very thick lines. In any case, I never got my drawdio to work beyond 2 inches of drawing, so you will not get beyond the A or the W at most. Yes, forget about that nice piano you thought about drawing on a legal pad.
-Getting the finger you will put on the paper a bit wet helps a lot.
-Getting the paper itself a bit wet helps a lot.
-Do not use glossy paper.
-I would recommend freeing the drawdio from the useless pencil and getting two pieces of cable or wire, attaching them to the extremes of the PCB, and attach the crocodile clips. You can then get to play with fruits or other people, making circuits with stuff. But DRAW? Not happening, not in a nice, non-frustrating way.

Some other bits:
-There is no clear documentation, video, etc., on how to use the paint brush. If someone can explain it here, it will be greatly appreciated.
-If you bought the kit, replacing one of the resistors with a lower resistance might help. But I'm not sure which one.

A real shame one has to assemble this list of hacks for a beginner's kit...

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The Drawdio is one of the oldest products in our catalog and remains one of the most popular too. Thousands of Drawdios go to schools, camps and hacker spaces as 'learn to solder' projects and they keep coming back for more. Those that have problems and post in the forums represent a fraction of a percent of the units sold.

We appreciate your feedback on the kit and tutorial and will review it with the team.

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guiyoforward
 
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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

Or perhaps people just get tired and frustrated and do not find it worthwhile to be vocal about it - not seeing complaints should not be so reassuring. However, I like adafruit and believe you mean to be good, which is why I post here. I bought a couple of additional pencils (6B, pure graphite sticks, carpenter's) and will come back with feedback here.
Meanwhile, could you please respond to this pressing issue? The kit says that one hsa to solder the copper tape to the extremes of the PCB. The pre-assembled kit instructions only seem to suggest that the tape should be taped to the PCB. Would that (getting a contact through the sticky part of the copper tape) ensure a good contact with the PCB?
Thanks

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The adhesive on the copper tape is conductive. But not as conductive as a soldered connection. If you have access to a soldering iron, that will give you a better connection.

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guiyoforward
 
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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

Dear Bill, could you or someone at adafruit take one of the pre assembled kits, mount it on the pen, and shoot a short video showing how it works for you? All the videos in the webpage seem to be from older versions, or DIY versions. The traces are way thicker. I'm suspecting the 2B pencil you include in the kit is to blame (i will try a 6b and post here).
Thanks

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The one I have here now is a DIY version. I will have someone test one of the pre-built kits from stock.

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

One of the guys from the factory just sent me a video of a working kit. The forums don't allow video posts, but I have a Drawdio kit on order and will be updating the documentation.

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

Thanks Bill. Just to be clear: By working, I meant that you can use the kit and the included pen to draw things on paper and make sound with normal pencil use. My kit makes sound if you touche the right bits, and I even did manage to get some sounds. With the included pen. But only accross about 1 inch of very very thick lines drawn over and over again with a lot of force on the paper - i.e., nothing like the easygoing experience in the videos. Looking forward to see this. Perhaps you can upload it to youtube and post the link here?
Thanks!

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

While we wait for the nice people at adafruit to share their experiences with the drawdio assembled kit with us (it's been a week, bill! coming up?), I share mine.
I can sum it up with a word: redundancy, or lack thereof.
re·dun·dan·cy. riˈdəndənsē. ENGINEERING: the inclusion of extra components that are not strictly necessary to functioning, in case of failure in other components.
All the culprits were innocent: the graphite inside the included 2B pen is as conductive as the 6B I bought (though not the graphite trace on paper - more on that below), just a few ohms; the copper tape is fine too, even the sticky side provides a good connection - eventually.
The problem with the drawdio pre assembled kit, in my humble opinion, is a concatenation of bad (cheap?) choices:
1-pencil: you need something softer than 2B, but also something able to make a wider trace on paper. If you press very hard, and go over and over the line many times, you will get something that can be used to conduct current as the drawdio is intented to to. So I use a much thicker 6B pencil pictured below. And I also used some graphite sticks to make thick lines to draw and play.
2-copper tape: the two small strips of copper tape included are not enough. Very little surface for the hand to make a connection, especially if you intend to use the drawdio with young kids with very small hands. I bought some copper tape and used a lot of it, creating a whole copper surface from the drawdio to the tip of the pencil.
3-connections: theoretically a bit of the sticky copper tape on the extreme of the PCB should do. But it doesnt. If you can solder it, even better; if not, go over the edge of the pcb a few times with the tape, on both sides. The same is true for the tumbtack, get tape on both sides of it.
So you need a better pencil which will provide redundant graphite conductive capacity, more copper tape to provide redundant connection between hands and drawdio, and more copper tape to provide redundant connections between the pcb and the tape.
Regarding the materials:
-carpenter pencils, while nicely shaped for the purpose, are not soft enough;
-graphite sticks seem nice, but the BANNED breaks the stick when inserted; stickin the copper tape to the graphite directly did not work well for me;
-round pencils are a pain, the drawdio moves around and breaks the copper tape connection. kuddos to adafruit, the included pencil at least has 5 or 6 flat sides so the drawdio sits nicely over it.
My solution was a Koh-i-Noor brand triangular shapred thick 6B pencil. The drawdio sits nicely on one of the triangular sides, and the thicker pencil is better for kids to hold. The pencil trace is pretty thick and nicely conductive - tohugh you still have to go over and over at least a couple of times. Beware, there is about an inch of wood only on the tip of the pencil, you need to saw it off so you can get the thumbtack to connect with the graphite.
The final product, and details of the redundant connections on both sides of the PCB, plus the smooth copper surface:
IMG_20140918_191835.jpg
IMG_20140918_191835.jpg (522.88 KiB) Viewed 572 times
IMG_20140918_191803.jpg
IMG_20140918_191803.jpg (538.97 KiB) Viewed 572 times
IMG_20140918_191846.jpg
IMG_20140918_191846.jpg (458.66 KiB) Viewed 572 times

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guiyoforward
 
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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

A few more details: the triangular shape of the pencil I bought (about $2.5), and the copper tape (about $10). Not monetizing my reasearch time:
IMG_20140918_191919.jpg
IMG_20140918_191919.jpg (532.81 KiB) Viewed 572 times
IMG_20140918_192117.jpg
IMG_20140918_192117.jpg (847.73 KiB) Viewed 572 times

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guiyoforward
 
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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

And more details: the type of graphite sticks that helped me make conductive drawings, and examples of the type of graphite circuits that worked:
IMG_20140918_192011.jpg
IMG_20140918_192011.jpg (596.26 KiB) Viewed 572 times
IMG_20140918_192139.jpg
IMG_20140918_192139.jpg (575.89 KiB) Viewed 572 times
PS: the paper with which I got the best results was plain letter laser printer paper. Glossy paper will not work, and cardboard or very texturized paper may also get in the way of the graphite bits that stick to it and interrupt the circuit.

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

(it's been a week, bill! coming up?),
It's been a very busy week that included a World Maker Faire. (where we saw more than a few Drawdios in action)
I should have some time to look at the assembled kit this week.

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

OK. Back in the lab now. I had a chance to unpack and assemble the Drawdio kit. I managed to bend the tack inserting it into the pencil, but otherwise it went together without issue and performed as expected (see video here). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQxAFgyZO8

I also tried a few carpenter's pencils with varying results. Most of the generic ones I had lying around the shop worked as well or better than the kit pencil. The Insta-Markretractable was particularly good. The Hansen "Super Pencil" was just too hard to lay down much graphite.

The paper surface does make a big difference. I had best results with 20# office-grade recycled copier paper. The premium 'super bright' stuff was too smooth to get a good bite on the lead.

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Re: Let's fix the Drawdio together!

Post by guiyoforward »

Thanks Bill. Nice video. The paper does seem to make a difference. Now, if I'm not wrong, you went over each line about a dozen times to make them conductive. You need very thick lines, and I'm sure you pressed very hard, as I had to do - my whole point is that you don't just use the pencil, make a few lines, and it's conductive & makes sound. You need to press hard and go over and over again. This is certainly doable with older kids. My advice, if used with young kids, is to get a 6B or 8B thick pencil as I show on the pictures above. That will make it much easier to get thick, conductive lines, and work closer to what I expected.
Thanks again

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