Source for packaging & scale of first run?

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pneumatic
 
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Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:59 pm

Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by pneumatic »

The circuit board I showed in the general project help area is for a Magnetic LED toy kit that I think I can make and open-source. The prototype circuit can be seen in operation in these youtube videos:

As I nail down the final design, I have a few questions about the mechanics of shipping and scale of operation.

I'm looking into packaging materials, and I'm not sure I've found the best sources.
For the anti-static bags that most kits seem to ship in, I was thinking of this from mouser, but wasn't sure if it was big enough. Other than the 3xAA battery box and a 1.5x1.6 inch circuit board, there are about about a dozen components, including 2 ICs (8 and 16 pin DIP), with an 8 pin socket. I was planning to mount the socket and ICs on foam, and put that in the battery box as ladyada does. It looks like it should all fit fine, but I wanted to make sure before I ordered 100 bags.

As for foam, the only stuff I can seem to find is at digikey, and seems really expensive, though I suspect one sheet would be good for about 200-300 kits. Is there a better source, or at least one with smaller quantities?

Speaking of quantities, I was initially thinking of a small run of about 40-50, but it seems that economies of scale mean that it's almost not worth order less than 100 PCBs[*], and 200 seems better. The rest of the stuff comes down as well if I order enough for 100 kits. Is that a good first round?

Thanks for any guidance,

-- Mitch

[*] I am going to do a run of 10 from barebonespcb.com to test the design, but they won't be suitable for sending out, since they'll lack silkscreen and soldermask.

adafruit
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by adafruit »

we get cheap antistatic bags from all-spec.com and our ESD foam from mouser. we use the 3/8" DESCO foam. its expensive but you get -a lot- for a sheet

leongriffin
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by leongriffin »

My 2c is to make the minimum and to not get sucked into trying to retire off one production run.
If it is the first run, use it to confirm that there is a demand and market. Better to sell 50 at cost and have to scramble for more product than be sitting on 200 that you can't sell...I am not being pessimistic but IMHO its all about controlling risk at the beginning.

-Leon

adafruit
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by adafruit »

on the other hand, if you sell 50 at cost, you're screwed because you cant raise prices. youve locked yourself into going broke even if you do well and being BANNED. charge the correct price FIRST, no matter how many you make - you can always lower the price later!

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pneumatic
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by pneumatic »

At 50, my per kit parts cost is ~$15, whereas at 100 units my per kit parts cost is ~$9, and at 250 units, my per kit parts cost is ~7, where most of that cost differential is the cost of the PCBs.

I don't think it makes sense to charge more than about $20 for this kit, given what it does, so it seems hardly worth making only 50 kits. I could take a little bit more risk, have 100 pcbs made, but only buy enough of the other parts to build a few kits (50?, 20?), and if they don't go anywhere, I'm not out much more than I was if I paid for 50 pcbs. The price for 50 PCBs is $389, whereas the price for $100 is $430--only $41 more, and the extra 80 cents per additional PCB seems worth the risk. I'm assuming that they're going to charge me $30-$50 for shipping either way.)

I'm assuming that I can forgo the $140 E-Test they want to do on either batch. It's a dirt simple board.

Are these reasonable assumptions, or am I talking myself into a bad idea?

Thanks for all the advice...

-- Mitch

adafruit
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by adafruit »

if its advanced circuits (4pcb) etest isnt ESSENTIAL but we do get some bad boards once in a while. if you're using some other service like goldphoenix its absolutely necessary.
we usually get 100-200 PCBs if we're sure the design is right but yes there's some risk. not sure what to say. if you post up what it is we can at least give you a little feedback

leongriffin
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by leongriffin »

I never meant to set up your business on zero margin; I agree, that would be silly.

What I meant is that if you are just starting and have not sold any yet, you have to confirm the market and your ability to reach it at the lowest possibly investment level. I say this because the first batch is not about making money it is about confirming you have a market and a potential business. Once you have sold a some you will have all the information to make a clear decision where as right now you are just guessing.

Option A) Buy 10 at $20 and see how long it takes you to sell them at $25, if you get push back on the price offer a 20% discount. If/when you sell them all you will be in a position to make your next order with the facts and much better knowledge on what the future will bring.

Option B) Set the price at $25 but then make an "advance order" offer for $20 to your market. Make sales and determine if you have a market, if not, refund the money and move on.

The beginning is a delicate time so you have to be creative with how and when you spend money but most important on how you mitigate risk...

Maybe that was 5cents this time,
Leon

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pneumatic
 
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Re: Source for packaging & scale of first run?

Post by pneumatic »

adafruit wrote:if you post up what it is we can at least give you a little feedback
Parts of this have been posted in other parts of the forums already, but I'll summarize.

I'm looking for make a kit to power a small portable version of the magnetic fridge lights at instructables. Actual manufacture of the LEDs/magnet assemblies and a box with a grid of magnetic electrodes is beyond the scope of the kit (though I plan to show some examples of how I built several.) The kit just has a small circuit to drive the two legs of the grid in alternating PWM.

Here is the latest schematic:
magled13_v0.7.png
magled13_v0.7.png (10.59 KiB) Viewed 2583 times
On the Tiny13 (U2), PB{1,2} drive two each of the half-h drivers on the L293 quad half-h chip (actually, I'm using a TI SN754410NE, which is pin compatible.) I'm using a motor driver chip because it's an easy way to drive (alternately source and sink) up to an amp, and I like the overcurrent/short protection that it gives me. PB4 drives the chip enables for both sides of the chip (with a 3.3K pulldown). Grid2 and the rest of the stuff on the right side of U1 is redundant, but I figure you can have it drive two separate sets of grids, say on different faces of a cube.

PB0 is hooked up to SW2, which is an option input switch. and PB3 is driving a status led.

Here's the board:
It's 2 layers, despite how it looks.
It's 2 layers, despite how it looks.
magled13_v0.7_300dpi.png (10.47 KiB) Viewed 2583 times
I could probably clean up the placement of a few elements, and maybe even get the size down a little, though it's only 1.5"x1.6" now. My only real concern is whether the poor thermal separation from pads to the (overly large) Vcc trace (light brown)and some of the ground plane (light blue) will make it too challenging to solder.

The code is linked below. I'm trying to get a slightly better version working, but apparently I don't understand how to writing timer interrupt handlers.

You can see a couple of youtube videos of my breadboard prototype and the magnet construction.
Attachments
simple.c
(2.81 KiB) Downloaded 321 times

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