Are PCB layouts "value"?

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shobley
 
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by shobley »

I'm not a classically trained EE, and I don't play one on TV either, but I have a question...

If someone posts a circuit online, and I create a PCB layout of that circuit for inclusion in a some new "thing" that I'm building - is is acceptable for me to treat the PCB layout as added value that I can sell?

I put the time in to transcribe the circuit, to the layout, and pay for the prototype to test, am I entitled to claim this as my "value" and ask for a small payment for the Gerber files?

I give a lot of stuff away, but sometimes I spend so much time, energy and money on something that I feel like it's worthy of being packaged and sold.

However I rarely design *everything* myself, typically pulling in circuit designs from all over the web.

I'm not looking to start a flame war, as I don't like being ripped off myself, but what is "industry best practice" in this information-cybersphere we all occupy?

Steve

adafruit
 
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Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:21 pm

Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by adafruit »

shobley wrote:I'm not a classically trained EE, and I don't play one on TV either, but I have a question... If someone posts a circuit online, and I create a PCB layout of that circuit for inclusion in a some new "thing" that I'm building - is is acceptable for me to treat the PCB layout as added value that I can sell?
you should contact the maker and see what they'd like, that's the right thing to do, always. unless the maker specifically says do whatever you want, or has license that describes what you can do, the proper and right thing to do is to contact them. worst case, they don't reply or whatever, you'd need to properly credit them - again, you can take more value out of the world, but the right thing to do is to put value back in and credit and contact the maker if that wasn't clear :)
shobley wrote:I put the time in to transcribe the circuit, to the layout, and pay for the prototype to test, am I entitled to claim this as my "value" and ask for a small payment for the Gerber files?
design your own circuit, then you don't need to worry about that. they put a lot of effort in it too, perhaps that's how they make a living. who knows, do the right thing and these questions answer themselves. sounds like you'd like to be compensated for your work, sounds fair to let others do the same.
shobley wrote: I give a lot of stuff away, but sometimes I spend so much time, energy and money on something that I feel like it's worthy of being packaged and sold. However I rarely design *everything* myself, typically pulling in circuit designs from all over the web. I'm not looking to start a flame war, as I don't like being ripped off myself, but what is "industry best practice" in this information-cybersphere we all occupy? Steve
you should contact the maker and see what they'd like - thought of the day - if you're building your things based on the things out there people share, it seems only fair to allow others to do the same.

-adafruit

shobley
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by shobley »

Thanks, I've already contacted all the makers and I'll post a follow up when I hear back.
I just wondered if this was a common scenario.

EDIT:

I just went for a coffee (I do my best thinking while standing in line) - is there a point where this becomes "fuzzy"?

For example if I learn about a differential amplifier on a website that has copyright notices on it, but then 6 months later I create a circuit that pretty much does the same thing - should I contact the original author and request permission, or does this 'new' circuit become my property? Nothing proprietary, just the standard OpAmp implementation.

Nearly everything I do is derived from some other circuit that I've seen, so can I ever have the right to sell anything?

Maybe this is why the kit model is better, because the information is free, but the parts are the value.

Steve

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Franklin97355
 
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Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by Franklin97355 »

Almost all circuits have some things in common. Electrons wouldn't flow if they didn't but to COPY someones work and sell the derivation seems wrong. I feel if you took an idea from something you read or saw and created your own design then you can do what you want with it.

shobley
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by shobley »

This is quite an interesting conversation.

As a software engineer I've reworked source code examples from all over the web to create new products. 99.9% of the time the example source code is given out with the understanding that you can do what you like with it.

Since the product is a compiled version of the code it very rarely comes up that we need to declare all sources. Not that we shouldn't do it, but in this wonderful world of business, with the "don't get caught" mentality the risk is deemed low. (It probably wouldn't make any difference anyway, as all the customer cares about is that the software makes his/her life easier).

Selling kits however is a whole new ball game - because the product includes the knowledge of how the device actually works.

I've taken bits and pieces from all over the web and added them into my laser harp design, but the design itself is unique.

BTW - I got responses from the original authors and they said it was OK to include the pieces of their work in the design of my current project - with credit of course.

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chuckm
 
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Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by chuckm »

FWIW, by definition PCB layouts are covered under Copyright Law. (yes even the DMCA, strangely) Most layouts will have a Copyright notice in the silkscreen somewhere but it is not required for the layout to be protected. Its less clear about circuit design. A couple of cases that were filed against SAMs books were resolved ambiguously (basically one where SAMs copied the schematic verbatim was upheld as a violation, and one where the components were the same, and the circuit was the same, but the schematic had been redrawn with different component orientations and some symbols was not considered to be a violation or a derivative work)

One can also patent a circuit design and then any implementation of that circuit for re-sale would require a license from the patent holder.

I think the safe thing is to send an email to the person who did the circuit and get their permission, then you're golden.

--Chuck

pstemari
 
Posts: 310
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Re: Are PCB layouts "value"?

Post by pstemari »

Sounds about right--the actual drawn schematic is copyrightable material, like any other drawing, but the circuit it describes is not. Recipes are pretty much the same way.

Of course, copyright law is only a rough approximation at best to ethical behavior, and asking permission/giving credit is 100% the right thing to do ethically.

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