Self-sourced kits from 3rd parties:

[mome rath]

It has come to our attention quality control isn't a concern for a few people selling "complete" self-sourced x0xb0x kits.

Many of us here have sourced our own kits which have afforded us functional x0xb0xes. It's not hard, though it does take a little while. There are others who have opted to purchase kits sourced by third parties, with mixed results. Recently, missing parts, incorrect parts, and counterfeit parts have become a concern due to one or more unscrupulous sellers.

We have established a positive feedback thread so you can make informed decisions regarding your transactions here. We also offer you the opportunity to post negative feedback, though there is currently no thread dedicated to the topic due to the potential nastiness involved. Please continue to maintain public dialogue regarding any problems encountered, and be sure to POST ALL FEEDBACK after you receive your parts/kits/services!

I'm sure phono will have something to add here

[phono]

i don't have too much more to add than be patient and vigilant. There really are enough resources in these forums for you to be able to self source your own kit relatively easily. If you really feel you need to buy a pre assembled kit, there really is only one place to get that and be sure you are getting what you are paying for and thats via the adafruit store.

Counterfeit components are a problem and if you end up building a kit from these you can count on the sound being wrong (if you even manage to get that far). Still if you are going to use another pre assembled kit, try to find someone who has used the kit in question before to be sure of the quality.

In all honesty if you arent using an official kit, you are better off sourcing the parts yourself, imo.

[factory_peasant]

Greetings x0x citizens.

I think this would be an appropriate thread to post photos and additional information on 3rd party sourced x0x kits that contain defective/counterfeit components so you know what to look for and avoid. Unfortunately most who buy a 3rd party sourced kit from a scammer will probably build it unaware the x0x is full of junk parts. If it doesn't fail on the first power up it most likely will malfunction soon afterwards. A kit builder might assume it was his or her workmanship rather than focus on the banned that they were sold to begin with. Since I'm seeing many wrecked full builds that were kits from the same person, and a wave of new kits to be built with the identical shoddy sourced parts I decided to hold building them until I could do more investigation. I hope this will help some of you. Remember, everything in the following photographs is from the same 3rd party kit source.



The encoder on the left is clearly contaminated and metal surfaces corroded. A junk part if there ever was one. It is the correct height to fit properly through the x0x front panel. The encoder on the right is far too small to fit through the x0x main PCB. The ground lugs and pins do not fit all the way through the x0x main PCB resulting with inadequate solder joints. It also does not clear far enough through the x0x front panel when the unit is fully assembled, so you will not be able to place a control knob on it. Oddly enough this kit usually has the encoder on the right of the photo but for some reason the guy put both of these in the same kit of parts. Not real helpful.



As you can see in this shot the kit source has packed ESD sensitive components- ICs and transistors into plastic sandwich bag material and wrapped them in household tape. This is totally unacceptable. Plastics like this and tape are huge static electricity generators. Sensitive components can be damaged or worse, weakened only to fail later. You might be wondering what's the big deal? Well, let me describe it like this. Ever walk across the carpet in a house and grab a metal object like a door knob only to receive a shock on your fingertips? Maybe you even saw a flash of light when you got zapped. That's more than enough of a voltage to destroy an IC. Anyone handling these parts in a sandwich bag carrying a static charge could ruin them. In addition, the surrounding plastic is likely generating enough of it's own charge to wreck them. When you buy components for a x0x build your parts should be shipped to you in protective packaging like the below photograph. Those parts were purchased from Digikey and Mouser.





These are 10K 1/4watt 5% resistors in the above photo. The four in the top of the picture were part of the 3rd party sourced kit. Look closely at them, you will notice multiple defects in the part's physical body. The leads are discolored, and the fourth one down barely has a color coded orange stripe visible. I suspect these are defective parts that were to be recycled or reclaimed for materials. More than 90% of the resistors in this guy's kits are this bad or worse. I would not use them. The bottom four resistors are brand new. Note the difference in color codes, absence of physical defects, and clean leads.



Here are a couple of 733 transistors for comparison. The top one shows considerable physical wear, all surfaces are degraded and the part markings are very poor. The bottom 733 pictured is a new production Fairchild 733 purchased from DigiKey. All surfaces are sharp and shiny, the part leads are free of discoloration and contamination. The manufacturer's logo is clean and part ID markings clearly visible. I suspect that the top 733 is either a defective part or an outright counterfeit. Either way I would advise against using the top 733 in any x0x full build.

More soon.

fp

[loydmilligan]

Thought I would chime in - if you recall, I was the first to have a problem with this seller as he took several weeks to ship my rare parts kit and sent me a bunch of dishonest information, and then became quite defensive when called out. I did finally receive the item and redacted my complaint. What I failed to mention at the time is that I had a problem with the parts. It now seems that I was given the faulty 733s and the FETs were not of the proper sub types. Anyway, in the interest of full disclosure I thought I would let everyone know of my experience.

[eil]

Are all of the silver 733's to be considered bad? I have a few in my parts bin, but it doesn't look like I used any on a x0xb0x yet. They're in my "high beta" collection, so I know I've at least tested them with my meter. They don't look to be in horrible condition like the picture, though.

[phono]

Are all of the silver 733's to be considered bad? I have a few in my parts bin, but it doesn't look like I used any on a x0xb0x yet. They're in my "high beta" collection, so I know I've at least tested them with my meter. They don't look to be in horrible condition like the picture, though.

not at all, i used a set of them on my second x0x and they were fine, but they were in as new condition not beaten up like that

[danyool001]

i have recieved a few dodgy parts in a kit bought from 'analogsynth or beatfunky' that i am building for a mate...

i feel kind of responsible for telling my mate to buy from him.... oh well... you live and learn!!

Below is a picture of the tempo rotary encoder i recieved for him...

QUESTION: has anybody used an encoder that looked like this?? did it work?
From what i can tell from the post above with the photos... this encoder is no good... it does seem a bit shorter than the 'right" encoder i used in my three builds...

I think its time i sent 'analogsynth or beatfunky' a note to get some answers...

[SteveBaker]

The incidious thing about improper static packaging is that when you use the part in a circuit, it may well work for a while before failing. But if your chip or transistor has been 'zapped' then it could well fail within days to weeks. This is especially annoying because it means you have flakey equipment and you may be debugging and replacing parts for months after you thought you had it working.

But even if the parts arrive in decent anti-static packaging - that's still no guarantee that the people who put the kit together used static-safe handling when moving parts from the bulk packaging they arrive in to the packaging they ship them to you in.

In the end, you can only go by sellers with good reputations. Sellers who deliver banned such as is shown above may APPEAR to mend their ways - but you'll never really know for sure. Sadly, that means that you can't really even risk giving them a second chance.

[beatfunky]

Hi guys, this is analoguesynth. Thanks for letting me know the problem. The problems seems like it came from the 2SC733 and the tempo knob. Why you guys don't email me in ebay and let me know and ask me to resent new one for you guys? Anyway, I will try to make it short and simple.

2SC733 :
I have bought this from 2 different companies, one is the silver one (they claims it is the high gain 733) and one is the black one just like in the xoxbox part list.) For anyone who thinks the silver one doesn't work on their xoxbox, send me a message through ebay, I will send you the normal black one. I am suprise you guys never contact me in ebay message when you found some 733 is not working. I have buyer told me one or two 733 not working, I have imeediately same him heaps extra until he got it right.

Tempo Encoder :
If any of you found your tempo encoder is not working, let me know. I will send you the right one.

Resistor :
One of you said the resistor looks old. Trust me, they are 100% NEW. The color fade off I think because it has been kept in the store for quite a while. I bought a package of 1000 for each different resistors, so I can 100% gurantee the resistor is new.

Packaging:
Sorry some of the package is not that good at the beinging, but it is ok now. I am packing them in individual.

I would really like to clarify myself and explain more here, but I found the more I explain.... it just make the situation more complicate and make one of you getting more mad, so I will not explain anymore. if you guys find any problem on the 733 and the encoder, please send me a message on ebay. I am very happy to send you the right one. I have the high gain 733 and the normal one, just let me know what you like. Actually, if you have any kind of problem, don't hesistate to contact me. I will try my best to solve your problem.
Finally, there is a buyer of my xoxbox kit. I think he is a xoxbox seller too. He's been attacking me for the last 3 weeks. May be I damaged his business? I don't want to mention his name and I don't want to say too much here, because I don't want to start an arguement here. I better forcus on how to solve you guys problem on the 733 and the encoder. He forgot to tell this guys I have send him a Free BA662A and he start attacking me right after you got my free BA662 VCA chip. I know he will start attacking me again after he read this and try to find every possible way to attack me, but I am done with him.

[beatfunky]

I am suprise none of you ever contact me in ebay and let me know the encoder and 733 problem. It is not a big deal, could of just contact me in ebay and ask me to send you the correct one, but I have only receive one request from one buyer said a few 733 is not working and ask me to sent a few more. Anyway, I will try my best to solve any problem you have. I bought most of the components from digikeys and mouser except the IC / encoder/ Resistors / Caps . The only problem I found you guys telling me is the 733 and the encoder. I have two type of 733, the silver one and the black one. If you think the silver one is not working, I can sent you the black one.

[drumatix]

Hi analoguesynth.

Since the beginning, my transaction with you has been problematic. I paid a hard earned $300 for your kit.

It took you just nearly 2 months and a number of excuses to finally ship me the entire kit, so that it could be built in entirety. You did not say on the auction page that you were missing any parts, I got to find this out by surprise after receiving everything.

Nextly, the kit arrived in extremely poor packaging - in a battered box, stuffed with components, some of which were not even bagged, and further with some of the components stuck to the tape of the box. And even further, you are using improper bags for many of your parts, which poses a risk of damaging them.

After expressing my discontent about this, after having waited time and time again for 2 extra shipments, you offered me a concession, a BA662 chip. I accepted. At this point, I was under the assumption that I was out of the clear, and that the troubles with this transaction were over.

The same day I received your concession to try and ease a bad deal, I received an email from an experienced builder who had started to inspect the parts in your kit. With good evidence to back up his claims, he started to outline to me that there were many problems with the parts he was seeing - that some of them may even be outright counterfeits or used/recycled components.

After the horrendous time I'd already been through, you can imagine my outright frustration at having to deal with this. Not only are you thousands of miles away, and the deal has been over for 2 months (which prevents any recourse by a formal claim with ebay or paypal), I am finding out that a good portion of this kit is potentially unusable, and highly unrecommended for a quality build.

I have since sent you numerous messages on ebay - I have questioned directly where you have gotten these parts from (which you have not answered - please do it here), I have given you direct evidence of the problems with these parts (which you have utterly denied and become hyper-defensive about, resulting in 1-2 page replies to me about how wrong I am), and I have pointed you towards others' criticisms or outright failures with your kits, to try and get you to open your eyes about this and do something.

It's now coming to light that kits and parts you are selling are failing, yet I look at your sales and they are continuing at a very steady pace, which means other people that are spending their hard earned money on potentially bad kits.

My replies through ebay have gotten very embittered, as I am trying to get a halfway cogent response out of you to directly address what many people are starting to talk about - however I receive nothing from you except defensive replies and claims that you will replace anything that's bad. What myself and others are trying to address is that the market is started to get polluted with junk and or counterfeit parts. You are the main source of this. To go hand in hand with this, your ship times are horrible and so is your packing. Is it a coincidence? Could it possibly be?

I feel it's my responsibility as a victim of your banned business to expose you for the fraud you are, and that's what you are seeing. However the best evidence for this will be scientific and not emotional as mine is. So in that regard, I will let this continue without intervening any further. With replacement of probably half of my kit from you, I will be able to build a x0xb0x that is reliable and that won't fail over time.

Thanks

[ozx0xb0xer]

Current ebay ad "Also the postage for ordering from more than 20 suppliers is not cheap too(USD$20 for each postage), cost me $400 just on all the postage."

20 suppliers!!!

[XeNoN23]

Omg, I also ordered a kit from a......... few days ago

Hope my kit is okay
I received the pcbs, and the panels on tuesday....directly from adafruit...I wait for the second package with the rest of the kit

I will report, if my kit arrives

[mome rath]

I know he will start attacking me again after he read this and try to find every possible way to attack me, but I am done with him.

It's a tough life when people find out you're running a shitty scam.

[adafruit]

hi guys, im not really involved here but it -is- my teaparty and id like to remind y'all to be civil and courteous. making x0x kits is very hard and these are problems that ive had before. so lets try to work out issues so that the customers and sellers are -both happy-, which will be hard to do when accusations are flying.