Reflow oven T100C

Chat about pick and place machines, reflow ovens, assembly techniques and other SMT tips & trix

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

Thanks for the files and advice. I think I'm going to go with the T200C+ as it isn't much more expense to make it closed loop. Hopefully it's worth it. I'll post when I get it and have had a chance to mess around with it.

blogger
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by blogger »

Thanks for the reflow profile.
I will test this today or tomorrow on my T200N.

gsattler
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by gsattler »

Bandtank and blogger, any luck with the oven profile?

blogger
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by blogger »

Hey, ya sorry.
This forum likes to expire my login every time and it takes forever to lookup the password.
You know what, I never noticed there was a "send to oven" button (my interface is in chinese).
So my oven was actually running on whatever default profile came loaded in it even though I've adjusted the table on the left to match the printouts in the manual I got with it. So when I got your profile, I entered it in, then noticed this "send" button. It takes like 30 seconds to upload profile to the oven, and now I'm using it. Works good, though it takes longer than the default profile.

Any idea how to change the buzzer beep time? With your profile now it beeps like 1 minute in, which isn't even during reflow phase. Ideally I'd like it to beep almost near the end so I know its time to turn off nitrogen.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

I haven't bought the oven yet because I am concerned about the quality. Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I tend to have bad experiences buying practically anything from China. I am mostly concerned about how to get spare parts if it breaks. If there is a way for me to get parts I would be less worried about it.

gsattler
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by gsattler »

We haven't had a need to buy any parts for the oven yet. If you are concerned about parts availability maybe buying the used APS Novastar batch reflow oven on eBay would be a good idea. APS Novastar is located here in the states and the guy we buy stencils from specifically had good stuff to say about the the small APS GoldFlows. For reference he also likes the Torch ovens as well.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

gsattler wrote:We haven't had a need to buy any parts for the oven yet. If you are concerned about parts availability maybe buying the used APS Novastar batch reflow oven on eBay would be a good idea. APS Novastar is located here in the states and the guy we buy stencils from specifically had good stuff to say about the the small APS GoldFlows. For reference he also likes the Torch ovens as well.
The APS ovens are pretty expensive. The Torch, if it works well, is the sweet spot for this type of oven I think. I may go ahead and order, but I have one final question. Is the software in Chinese or can you get it in English? Is there a way to download it ahead of time as a demo?

gsattler
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by gsattler »

The software is written in English, but you will have to be somewhat creative with some of the translations. For what its worth, the APS batch reflow oven on eBay is Buy It Now for $3100, maybe make a lower offer and they'll take it since its one of those 25 day listings. I'm not selling it, it just might be worth checking out.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

gsattler wrote:The software is written in English, but you will have to be somewhat creative with some of the translations. For what its worth, the APS batch reflow oven on eBay is Buy It Now for $3100, maybe make a lower offer and they'll take it since its one of those 25 day listings. I'm not selling it, it just might be worth checking out.
That oven has been on ebay for months. It was manufactured in the 90s. I called APS and had one of their sales reps look at the auction listing and he pointed out several ways to know it was a pretty old model. The T200C/+ is a much better oven than that particular model.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

gsattler wrote:The software is written in English, but you will have to be somewhat creative with some of the translations. For what its worth, the APS batch reflow oven on eBay is Buy It Now for $3100, maybe make a lower offer and they'll take it since its one of those 25 day listings. I'm not selling it, it just might be worth checking out.
Also, I wanted to say thanks again for being so helpful. I really appreciate people like you who are willing to offer advice and experiences on forums. I think I'm going to go with the T200C+ based on your recommendations and opinions.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

I bought a T200C from Manncorp this morning. Their version of the T200C has the closed loop temperature controller and various other small improvements that hopefully make it worth the little bit of extra money. I will post about it when it arrives.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by bandtank »

It's pretty good. The software is complete BANNED, though. I mean a real, honest to god, piece of BANNED. I am actually going to rewrite the application as soon as I get some free time. The microcontroller running the oven controls it mostly okay, but I think I am going to redesign that as well. If you are low volume then this will work fine, but if you need something higher quality then spend 2x as much as you will be happy you did. It works, but the software is so atrocious it is ridiculous.

blogger
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by blogger »

furiously waiting for software that isn't trash.
maybe someone can rewrite the software for MDC picknplace too.

gsattler
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

Post by gsattler »

We all want some cheap oven that has an amazingly designed microcontroller with a thought out graphical user interface and well written software. The product exists in the market already and it costs significantly more than a Torch (see DIMA ovens). When you go BANNED shopping you shouldn't expect everything to be the best so let's just call it what it is, an inexpensive $3k oven that is significantly better than a pizza oven but still has its warts. The point is that it works and works pretty well once you figure out how to use the admittedly bad software.

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bandtank
 
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Re: Reflow oven T100C

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I don't disagree with that in theory, but even the quality of the oven doesn't make up for the unbelievably bad software. It certainly works and I've had success reflowing most of my boards. I just can't get over how bad the software is and how easy it would have been to improve it. Relatively little extra time would have made it remarkably easier to use, but that is the Chinese business model - bare minimum - so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

A few examples of things that bug me to no end:
There is a multi-second lag between the temperature update on the computer and the front panel of the oven, which sometimes aren't even the same.
The write and read buttons of the oven alarm settings rarely work. The settings simply don't stick the majority of the time.
The serial communication initiated by the computer has 200mS delays between packets, so it takes 30 seconds to program the data points when it could be done in < 100mS. I'm not so impatient that I can't wait for 30 seconds, but again this is simply lazy programming.
There is absolutely no documentation to explain what several of the settings do. The names aren't helpful either so it is a guessing game.

There are no part numbers for any of the internal parts of the oven. I bought mine from an American reseller so if something goes wrong there is a possibility I can get replacements. I asked Torch what happens if I need a replacement part and they said they ship spare ones. I asked what happens if those aren't the parts I need or I need more and they never responded. Their price was about $700 cheaper than Manncorp, but that wasn't a gamble I was going to take as Manncorp stocks replacement parts in the USA.

I will release a beta version of the software on this forum when it is ready. By the end of the year I hope I will have time to make a new controller for the oven as well. Like I said, it works as-is but has more potential and I'd like to tap into that.

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