best value for small, slow automatic pick and place
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by mikeselectricstuff on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:24 pm

Philly wrote:Thats good enough for my needs, I will email you when Im at a proper machine :)

The video is cool, whats the cph rate on that bad boy and how do you handle paste dispensing?

They quote 1200cph for RV1s and 2000 for RV4s (the 4s has the same mechanical speed but a flying camera), but this is heavily dependent on feeder locations etc.
I currently use polyester stencils from smtstencil.co.uk, but I'm planning to investigate dispensing using an old X-Y plotter that I bought with the intention to convert to pick/place before realising it would be too much hassle.
How much are the feeders and are they available?


Versatronics went bust a while ago so feeder prices and availability depend on what used ones are available at the time, although I believe that feeders from older models (RV1 and RV placer) can be adapted fairly easily (minor electrical mod). Wider tape feeders are scarce, but at a pinch if you have access to a milling machine you could probably widen some lanes of an 8mm one. The feeder design is very simple, so quite amneable to adaption and readily repairable, and the software is flexible enough to be able to deal with nonstandard feeders. Things like new nozzles and consumables (o-rings and feeder drive belts) are available from an ex-versatronics guy who also does servicing etc. and knows the machines inside out.
If you need a lot of tape lanes for high-mix PCBs this may not be the best machine unless you find one that comes with lots of feeders. It is however easy to set up 'passive feeders' to pick from static strips, trays etc. and the only practical limit is the amount of space available on the bed alongside the PCB.
On another note, I didnt realise you were that electricstuff, I've been browsing your site for years, been a great source of reference. I even bought a GPS module from maplins after your article. Was it you who etched a spiral track on copper clad, wired it to the mains and dropped metal shavings onto it?

not guilty!
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by adafruit on Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:40 pm

On another note, I didnt realise you were that electricstuff, I've been browsing your site for years, been a great source of reference. I even bought a GPS module from maplins after your article. Was it you who etched a spiral track on copper clad, wired it to the mains and dropped metal shavings onto it?

not guilty!


wow! does anyone have a video of this event? :)
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by Philly on Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:33 am

Cant find a vid(Im sure there used to be): http://www.bigclive.com/bam.htm
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by esdk on Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:18 pm

Hi,

If you are interested in the APS Gold NovaStar Pick and Place machine we have one for sale - a LE40 benchtop. Please check http://electronics-shop.dk/aps-le40

We have used it for 1½ year its a great little machine for batch production. We outgrew it and is now producing on 3 siemens siplace machines.

Comes complete with over 100 feeders and lots of options like glass scale encoders, dispenser, etc.

Best Regards

Søren
Electronics-shop.dk
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by Hans Chr on Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:41 am

Hi all,

I have purchased a pick and place machine, the M10V, from mechatronika.com.pl . It states 1200 to 1600 chips/hour. I am very satisfied with it. I also have their reflow oven, MR260. It would be nice to hear if anyone else have it, pherhaps we could share information.
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by blogger on Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:48 am

Cool, M10 can pickup parts from a random bin. That's exactly the kind of functionality that 7722FV has all the technical requirements for, but lacks in software department...
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by ktownsend on Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:12 pm

Hans Chr wrote:Hi all,

I have purchased a pick and place machine, the M10V, from mechatronika.com.pl . It states 1200 to 1600 chips/hour. I am very satisfied with it. I also have their reflow oven, MR260. It would be nice to hear if anyone else have it, pherhaps we could share information.


I'd be curious to hear what you paid for it (compared to my 7722FV), just for comparison sake. Any chance you'd mind posting a ballpark figure, or maybe PM me?
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Tue May 15, 2012 3:42 am

I apologize for necroposting, just willing to revive this topic despite it's mostly the manncorp machine that has been discussed here with reasons :wink:
My hobby business is expanding (a lot) and I'm looking for a PnP machine. My needs aren't big, I'm really after an entry range machine. Not just for the $$$ question but I've really well targeted my needs. I don't plan to propose any placement service as it's not my business purpose. I've been stenciling paste and assembling boards for 5 years now, I was only recently able to save some time with an access to a big machine but it's no longer possible.
Basically, if I need 1 week to make 100 boards, it's not a problem. The current production (manual) with all I have to do elsewhere (house, family, dayjob) is more like 100 boards per month.

I've been warned about the return on investment and "why would you need a machine", and I know that I'll damper the cost in a very reasonable time, as my activity is already established but :
- I don't have the budget for servicing a complex / powerful machine like a mydata
- I do have space in the basement but it's not unlimited.

my designs have 0603, a TQFP MCU, SOT 23 regulators, a couple of SSOP, this sort of things. I've been placing those by hand for quite a while now, and that 's the time I need to save. Setup time isn't a problem, I don't have a crazy production rate with dozen of designs per day. I've been trained a bit by my buddy (mydata operator). Basically, we did about 250 boards a day instead of 100 boards a month, if doing it only all the time by hand (which equals zero R&D time).

I've read good things about the APS LE40 then digging more people won't recommend it, cost, software. I'm sure no system is perfect but again, some point of view emerge with the use of a better / more professional machine that I can't afford right now and I'm not willing to have my batches done elsewhere because it's a nightmare where I am, and I believe in autonomy.

someone mentioned the M10V from mechatronika. I'd like to hear about usage and pricing. This and any pointers (in europe) for second hand equipment.

thanks for any help
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by scsi on Tue May 15, 2012 7:21 pm

Have you looked at that Essemtec Pantera listed on eBay in Slovenia? I have no experience with it but the deal does not seem bad at all if you can check it out before buying.
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Wed May 16, 2012 5:27 am

hell, it's really a good deal :shock:
I'd need to go slovenia but that's not that far. I got to check on ebay more often, thank a lot for sharing.
that kind of second hand machine would fit both my needs and budget. I'm currently gathering the funds, so it's a no go for me now though but I'll keep looking !

any advice welcome !
thank you
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by Alphatronique on Thu May 17, 2012 4:18 pm

delete by me
Last edited by Alphatronique on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Sat May 19, 2012 5:31 am

thanks a lot marc

lol, I'll fancy another trip to canada, it's been a while, but I think they'll overcharge me a lot to bring this machine back :lol:

I believe I need top vision at least as I work on panels and from what I understand, it's important to have the fiducial recognized for each PCB to avoid deviation. Panels are about 29x15 cm.
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by Alphatronique on Sun May 20, 2012 12:38 pm

delete by me
Last edited by Alphatronique on Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by vincentp on Sun May 20, 2012 1:19 pm

thanks marc. I read my post again and I see I totally forgot to mention my actual location which is... France.
I know that import duty is very low in both the US and canada, unfortunately, anything coming from outside of the EU will be highly taxed for anything above $300 (ish). As they count the shipping cost in the total bill, an estimate of 25% import duty (> VAT) is what you have to pay. Stiff, isn't it ?

(but if you could fax me that machine, I'll take it for sure :lol: )

thanks again !

nobody with experience on the mechatronika 10V ?
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Re: best value for small, slow automatic pick and place

by Alphatronique on Sun May 20, 2012 3:20 pm

outch

oui shiper une machine en france ses pas donner et pas rentable

as for mechatronika only problem i see as for every no Very common machine
was lack of used feeder on market so you need to got it from original dealer
and it more expensive .. as exemple a used GSM-1 8mm feeder cost 45$
since it have many on market ,but a APS gold feeder may cost > 400$

and remember that normally your bigger expense will feeder not the machine alone

so it may a good buy but only if it come already loaded whit feeder you need
30 x 8mm ,10 x 12mm feeder was near the minimum need
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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