Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....
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Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:31 pm

a bit of mydata hacking and how to not in a particular order ...

i make it since mydata machine was really good machine and beging to apper on market
a good price for hacker and small shop you may got it for under 20K$
handel cut-tape ,relaible ,easy to program ,fit in a normaly door-way ;-) ha and not require comppressor or vaccum
problem was that seem that need to paid for register machine back to mydata
and for tranig etc etc and hacker not have budget for this so this is my do-it-yourself way ..

a bit of mydata history ...

first was blue TP-9 machine in ~1980 (excellent as boat anchor)
then White TP-9 Whit opem bottom (machine base look like a metal table) may good if very low cost and it work .. runing on old venix for sure
then TP-9 and TP9-U whit closed base , that start to be interesting machime specially if tpsys was 2.0 >
then TP9-UFP Starting at UFP model around year 2000 machine bacame 3 phase only and was 35" so not fit door way
then MY-X (Late UFP was very close to MY-X Desing)

if you not figure yourself the mumber in the model was number of magazine it handel so TP-9 have 9 magazine slot
and a TP-18 will have 18 mag a 8mm tape mag handel 16 x 8mm tape reel and cost on used market ~2500$ so ~160$/ reel
not forgot that Y wagon take 1 or 2 Slot

a funny thing is that most of hardware was controlled by MOT-C card that was swapable so if you got problem
you swap card and see if problem follow the card or not so it east to spot it it hard or mechanical problem ;-)
on a machine it have ~4 MOT-C card that control X ,Y and Head / centering
and all motor have current feedback and encoder for control force ,position and speed
it also use kind of adaptative algo on software first part take/placed on a feeder was but slower then as it place more of that part
machine increase speed at each new part up to got it full speed ,so if someting wrong it not smash the head by start full speed

Machine come whit 3 Posible Head
Z-phi was verry simple desing stock head place anyting
Midas more complex but faster same nozzel that Z-Phi
Hydra 8 nozzel head for small part and use diferent nozzzel
personaly i prefer Z-phi it place ~3000 to 3300 part /Hour in real life
and it simple desing make it east to fix and bullet proff

the machine use "parameter" kind of windows registery
that were(near) all setiging was put for change it you need the password "Anders"
play cotion if you play whit this it may scrap machine !!!
and it good idea to print it and keep in safe place
all machine rum same soft only differ was parameter entry
so you may run a 2012 version of tpsys on a 1990 machine whit no problme
(you will need the "magic word" a kind of software key that match tpsys version and your machine serial number)


then nozzel o-rig need lube for work weel so someting like add a bit every 2 week
you may also chage o-ring http://www.nozzlesupply.com/mydatamaint.htm
have it stock and good price whit ti it will solve all toll changer problem

mechanical Centering do a great job i personaly place almost everything whit it
it also mesure part and some machine may even test passive component value ;-0
use camera only for TQFP all QFN ,BGA and passive was mechanical centered ...


1-) if you have tpsys Version under 2.0 i sorry for you it build in Venix
and it no longer exist ,obsolete ,so use it as is ....

2-) if you have tpsys >2.4.3 send me you iso image plase ;-)

3-) if you have tpsys 2.0 and up your in buisnis that based on red-hat linux
and have lot of way to have fun whit it ;-)

first some trick whit work on stock machine ...
a-) hidden FTP server on the machine !! simply conect whit ftp client
and use tpsys as user and no password ,before got welcome pront it take a while
but onlce got it it work good the ftp permit to brose whole HD ;-)

b-) some version of tpsys have ester-egg on web server and doc in PDF !!
check on /documents/ and /TheTeam/ on 2.2.4 it have operating manaul and istall guide

c-) maby you not knot but it have a internal UPS that run from 18V lead battery (3 x 6V 10 A)
voltage was monitord my system but since gell lead battery failure mode was to go open or hight impedence
system monitor the charger float voltage ans batery live was ~5 year so likely that your batery was dead
i not what to but 6V 10A lead battery since when you but it most of time it alredy dead du to storage
so i make some search and find LiFePo4 battery 6 of it was just perfect
http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4-Pri ... 8.4Wh.aspx
the mydata flot voltage was bit under the charge voltage of the litium cell so it not over charge
ie no need to chage original charge systen jsut swap the battery ;-) and Lifepo4 have 10 year live
on my system battery keep a 19.5 volt so near full charge

d-) tpsys support postcrip lan printer verry well so no need to try to find old dox matric printer
jsut put ip adress of printer and chose postcript ans it work (at least on my xerox color cube 8570)
check/set parameter 131:0001 = postcript 131:0002 = no 131:0003 = printer ip adress 131:0004 = lp

e-) take time to read the ascii import file format it verry easy and powerfull
on rent a coder (vworker) for couple of hundre $ some ome make me a program that take my P-cad .pcb file
and generate part and placememt file ready to use on the machine !!
so if footprint exist on machine it will create part by itself and generate placememt data whit fixed rotation
and fiducial ready to run on the machine so programing time was reduce to simply import file and write
pcb height test place and locate fiducial !!

as exemple a part look like

#
C00 CK103BB
C01 CAPC1608X55N
C02 CAP CER 10000PF 100V X7R 0603
C03 FALSE TRUE
C05 FALSE 0 CLOSEST_BIN
C08 8mm
C081 TAPE_MAG
#

you may notice that i use IPC 7351 naming for footprint name on the machine so it match the cad footprint name
that make programming even faster by not to have to search on machine the witch footprint fit ...

and placememt data look like

B Controller_TOP.MNT
U 0.1N
C1 56300 152300 200800 278800
C2 2118 53165 106444 3992
Q1 1
M1 116400 282250 0 CK104JB
M2 C1
M1 152050 279800 180 CT476D50K
M2 C2
M1 159050 279800 180 CT476D50K
M2 C3
M1 177550 279800 180 CT476D50K
M2 C4
M1 145500 279800 180 R102A
M2 R1


ok so what you may make whit tpsys 2.0 for make live better ?
most used mydata machine come whit old pentium 1 pc whit 233MHz max
since webserver and FTP run whit lowest cpu priority that make it dam slow
also old pentim use CHS Hard drive so under 4 Gig and most bios not handel >500meg
and keyboard use AT din connector
so if you fail the keyboard or HD you in trouble .
solution was DIY PC upgrade ;-)

pc was pcimb form factor in other word it computer fited on a pci card (whit also a ISA bus)
ok some older machine have a normal pc mainboard to but most have the pcimb board
Advantech PCA-6003 was a good low cost taeger for a new computer board ..
it pentium III un to 1.3GHz
PC was used only for hight level task GUI /Vision etc motor was handel by mot card
and pc interface it troug a 8mhz 16 Bit ISA card

so so swap pc will fix many thing
a-) permit solid stare disk and/or easy to find LBA HD
b-) USB keyboard pc bios will handel it but mydata seem to remove usb stuff from kernel ;-(
so forgot for now usb flash drive istead of floppy ..
c-) faster web server an ftp server for load/admin job to/from remote machine

i not yet make the pc swap but i make test and tpsys run on a dual core P-4 Xeon Pc
so i not see wly i will not work on a P3 .... will test it next week

to be continued .....
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Hi

some quick update on this post ...

still not got able to make work the pentium III card on the machine right
last try make it read machine serial number but still not talk to mot card
i think it ISA bus drive current issue card i have was normal but have place for fit driver for HISA option
will try it on coming week ...

also for make work new PCIMG card have need to remplace DC-DC stock was 75W Vicor VI-200-27
and have remplce it by Vicor V28A5C175BL , problem come that pentium III need 25W of power
so whit all mot card that that also need 5volt to that to mutch for stock 75W brick ...

i also found that it seem possible to put any mot card on a older machine
so in theorie you may use MOT-1 ,MOT-2 ,MOT-3 card in any slot and just need to run
hwconf on unix prom for autodetect card type and software will configure it ;-)
i not think it have any performance adventage to change card but mot-1 was back to 1993 or older
and here i have many 2005 MOT-2 so will try it on next pc swap try

i find a suitable flex cable for remplace blue hi-flex ribbon cable on the X and on head
3M PN 3319/50 was rated to 100 million flex ;-) and aviable @ digi-key but it not cheap

have find a replacement capacitor for rebuild power supply aviable a newark
EPCOS - B41580A7339M Newark Part Number: 18T7246
have replace my and all was fine only observation was that +/-40 volt line drop to +/-35 and +/-80 was now +/-77
but that still on original spec

as for lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery battery upgrade after more that 90 day all was perfect
batt voltage keep around 19.0 volt and supply more that need run tine for permit clean shutdown
of machine in case of main power lost

in one year i have now upgrade / remplace near 80% of the electronic of the machine
not because of issue whit original system but for rejunerate it ,machine was build in 1994 so it not young
but that show that system was quite easy to upgrade and service :mrgreen:
and still very capable system i now place whit no problem 0402 part (after adjust feeder pick position)

in now work for make CNC tube fork for vibre feeder will have first unit very soon
if wrok will publish DXF here

i have chase a intermiten trouble when machine initialise whit "F-MOT-MSETDYN 2/3: Upper End point outside limit"
even if run on unix promp command "burning" all was fine after 3 hour of "Z" toggeling position
so that show that during init motor when force was set very low (for avoid damage if have problem)
but that also make that any small thing that may add restriction make a init error
on my case it was simply a louse cable that moved over head when and on head raise
that "feel" that bit or presure and trig the error ,cable was simple 4 pin flay ribbon cable so quite sensitive ...

more to come later ...

add 06/03/2013

Have make a new attemp to swap pc and still fail to talk to CP54 Board (isa to machine bus controller)
i mesured original card Isa bus speed that was @11mhz and PIII was 8Mhz
but original board work even if it drop isa to 8mhz so must other thing
i notice that on bios spash screen of original board it wrote "configured for VVG2"
so this may point to custom bios but new board see and configure the VVG2 card (PCI)

so i very lack of idea now ,and MyData P54 computer box was very hard to find
was open to sudjestion ..

Best regard
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Tonaxel on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:05 am

Hi Marc,

Thanks a lot for the great post. It helped me to solve 2 problems with my old TP9-2U: The Vicor converter and the ribbon cable for x.

All the best from Germany!
Axel Joost
http://www.optogate.com
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:21 pm

Hi

thank let me knot if you need anything

i now knot that machine to it last screw ;-) and have ton of spare part

and i now target MY line :mrgreen:

Best regard
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Tonaxel on Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:03 pm

Hi Marc,

thanks a lot for the offer. I still search a Pentium 1 via E-Bay for the conversion of my old TP9-2U with Venix system against a TPSys 2.4.6b what I got together with my TP9UFP. I wanted to sell the TP9-2U before but your article gave me the hope to fix the conversion by myself. Let´s see...

However, if you still need a copy of TPSys 2.4.6b, just send me a mail under info@optogate.com

All the best!
Axel
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Tonaxel on Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:03 pm

Hi Marc,

thanks a lot for the offer. I still search a Pentium 1 via E-Bay for the conversion of my old TP9-2U with Venix system against a TPSys 2.4.6b what I got together with my TP9UFP. I wanted to sell the TP9-2U before but your article gave me the hope to fix the conversion by myself. Let´s see...

However, if you still need a copy of TPSys 2.4.6b, just send me a mail under info@optogate.com

All the best!
Axel
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:18 am

Hi

i have 2 of that pentium computer here whit cp4 card if need

check you mail ..

a+
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by tigran on Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:55 am

Hi there, we've got TP9-UFP machine. Are there any chances to get USB trackball to work?
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:51 pm

Hi

if you run TpSys 2.0 to 2.4.x usb driver was remove from kernel and P1 120mhz computer not have usb anyway

if computer was upgraded whit newer computer that run TpSys 2.5.X and up and have USB port (rare on a TP serie)
you may have in luck even if kernel not handel ,it bios may ,at leas i knot bios handel my usb mouse

i just buy a TP9-UFP to today for setup a second smt line here :mrgreen:
whant a MY but cannot pass it on my doorway/stairway so stuck whit TP machine
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by tigran on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:17 pm

Hi! Thanks for the fast reply.

Well, we had the same issue getting it into the manufacturing facilities (needed extra 18mm extra space to fit it in place) :)
Concerning the machine itself. Well, it has physical USB port. It has something mentioned in the BIOS, but all USB alike parameters are enabled.

If we talk about TPSys, then i think that the version was 2.4.6b. I will re-check that tomorrow. Are there any chances to install the USB driver throuhg "insmod" or something like that?

P.S. Wish you luck installing your machine :)

Regards,
Tigran.
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:42 pm

Hi

umm interesting that you have usb port on you computer machine
when you boot witch cpu and mhz it display ? normally it pentium 120Mhz
on TP Serit it very rare to have newer pc .. 2.4.6B was last version that work on P 120Mhz
so that interest me a hight point it may help to find wly other pc not run :mrgreen:

you may try whit a usb mouse for see if bios see it , normally it work i have installer tpsys 2.3.1
on a Xeon dual core and my usb mouse work ,but not yet able to run machine whit different pc

anoter solution may replace kernel whit a a version build whit USB , mydata related hardware was on kernel module
so in theory just replace main kernel and it work but i not yet try it ...

once will receive my second machine will able to do more test ,right now it slow down test since if i broke some one
shop operation will stop and that not good idea ,but whit a spare machine will have something to play he he
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:49 pm

p.s. last year have to send one UFP to scrap since it not pass my doorway (new frame desing like the MY serit)
that only 2" wider when revove the X motor but that to big for 32" door
so now i finish to find one whit frame lile old TP (E-Bay) so this time will able to enter the shop whitout rish of divorce
since open wall for enter machine was not wive friendly ,and put shop on inter-modal container was not neighbours frendly
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Tonaxel on Thu May 30, 2013 1:06 pm

Hi Marc,

I just want to ask if you still have a Z-FI unit with the 2 decoders and the motor for a Midas head available? My TP9UFP makes often the error message "Theta/2: Lower end point not repeatable" I already changed the mot card and cleaned the decoder with the plastic housing what is placed on the motor without success.

Do you also still have a computer card available? Thanks a lot in advance!

All the best!
Axel Joost
http://www.optogate.com
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Alphatronique on Thu May 30, 2013 10:31 pm

Hi

i not have midas on any of my machine (i just bring to shop anoter one todday :mrgreen: )
for now it have only the older version of z-pi , i find it also more reliable and much simpler in desing

encoder was bit pain to clean up it very hight resolution ..

not forgot that X wagon cable was away good place to check for all kind of trouble

still have ton of mot-1 and mot-2 card so if need just tell me witch one you need

will probably document the restoration of my new machine ,got it at low cost and bad shape on ebay (330889777734)
for now i have replace head and will need lot of maintenance to make on it ,but look that once fixed
it will a really good machine ,the UFP was much better build that my 2U ,first test board look really great whit 0402 :D

but lesson learned even if mechanical counter was 4000/h since it have only 4 digit that may make several turn
and 1 day assembly time may also misleading if Hard Drive was replaced recently ...
so loot lightly used machine become a bad shape ,but fortunately still very precise or at least look to be

http://youtu.be/QWo6JWZk4q4 the fun of pass a 2,000 lbs machine on a 32" doorway and stairway :mrgreen:

Best regard
Attachments
tp9_ufp.jpg
the new one during the born
tp9_ufp.jpg (75.1 KiB) Viewed 3616 times
Best regard
Marc Lalonde CID.
IPC Certified PCB Designer.
Alphatroniqe inc.
www.alphatronique.com
http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyData_Group
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Re: Mydata how-to and bit of hacking ....

by Tonaxel on Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:26 am

Wow, it´s a bit like the old Egyptian building the pyramides :-) I had the luck that my workshop is on ground floor and my neighbor supported me with his tractor with front fork and a couple of ropes...

I just checked the 2 big ribbon cables but they are ok. Will look for a Z-Fi unit after I changed the MOT boards.

All the best!
Axel
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