Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

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Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:21 pm

All AVO meters are just not pocket sized. I've looked around. I want something the size of a packet of cigarettes! Sick of carrying around my multimeter which 5" / 3" / 2". Just doesn't fit in a pocket.

Gotta be possible to make one the size of a cellphone or thereabouts?

Perhaps mains testing might be too tall an order, but it would be so useful to have a digital voltmeter in the size of a banned carton, even if it was limited to voltages of 100 or even 50.

If the functions were limited to A, V, O, and continuity, the project would be a lot simpler. (Transistor testing not really necessary).

Aside from there being a gap in the market for a truly pocket sized meter... I think it'd be a great project kit to make an avometer.

Ideas anyone? :)
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby adafruit » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:23 pm

the Seeed DSO is compact and a scope, there's also a few pocket multimeters. we dont think it necessarily makes sense to have one as a kit - but we'll keep it in mind!
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:20 pm

well holy cow I am tempted. two hundred US but it's a fully functional oscilloscope in the size of an iWhatever. max input 80v but see that's overkill and underkill; need a tiny voltmeter just to be able to check that any given mains adapted psu is functioning! could always carry a selection of small halogen bulbs I suppose lol in a banned case. and yet the Purpose of the exercise is to condense into small, something that can detect the big! is it so hard to get a mains tester built in? is it so necessary to spend well for a tiny tool that's not only an oscilloscope but records readings on flash memory?! overkill? underkill?

can't we cover half the goals for a fraction of the price?! :)

the freedom that one could have if one had the functions of a multimeter in a truly shirt-pocket sized device!

two hundred big ones. arg. tempted.

how comesit y'all don't think it makes sense to have a multimeter as a kit? forgive me for being british, but measuring things is supposed to be the art that superpositions hard science and hard experience?! I think it would be the ultimate kit! to challenge people to build the device which measures their own accuracy. just think of what we might learn from the feedback!; if AFI makes a meter that can test mains electricity, and no one dies during assembly or usage, then there is indeed hope for man! or scores goes up in smoke and the survivors learn from that.

we should do this; for Science.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPyGvqNn4Y

my mate mark HAS a tiny avometer (analogue) that he intends to give me. cost him zilch. aparently it works just fine though.

with that in mind, seems so obvious to me that there should be a Kit for measuring things! or even just relevant components made available so we can, for example, form a voltmeter in the size of a wristwatch, or a basic avometer in the size of a MintyBoost. evne if it's analogue. to measure, is the essence of experiment. to read the results is the essence of observation. from there we make that leap of faith between doubting decartes and trusting occam.

I don't want to buy a product to find out if my MintyBoosts give 5V! If I can't trust my own work then how can I trust a generic avometer?! I trust something I pay for as much as something I make at the best of times! It's all a matter of beer! Why not throw the die?! Conclude with the same mind that observes?!

I know what yar thinkin; my avometer needs recalibration.

"It is you who are unpoetical," replied the poet Syme. "If what you say of clerks is true, they can only be as prosaic as your poetry. The rare, strange thing is to hit the mark; the gross, obvious thing is to miss it. We feel it is epical when man with one wild arrow strikes a distant bird. Is it not also epical when man with one wild engine strikes a distant station? Chaos is dull; because in chaos the train might indeed go anywhere, to Baker Street or to Bagdad. But man is a magician, and his whole magic is in this, that he does say Victoria, and lo! it is Victoria. No, take your books of mere poetry and prose; let me read a time table, with tears of pride. Take your Byron, who commemorates the defeats of man; give me Bradshaw, who commemorates his victories. Give me Bradshaw, I say!"

"Must you go?" inquired Gregory sarcastically.

"I tell you," went on Syme with passion, "that every time a train comes in I feel that it has broken past batteries of besiegers, and that man has won a battle against chaos. You say contemptuously that when one has left Sloane Square one must come to Victoria. I say that one might do a thousand things instead, and that whenever I really come there I have the sense of hairbreadth escape. And when I hear the guard shout out the word 'Victoria,' it is not an unmeaning word. It is to me the cry of a herald announcing conquest. It is to me indeed 'Victoria'; it is the victory of Adam."
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby adafruit » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:44 pm

the biggest issue is that multimeters do a lot, and they need to do them accurately and its hard to build something accurate if its a DIY kit (for various reasons) we we could make a multimeter kit but it would pale in comparison to existing $10 multimeters. Thats why we prefer to design stuff that doesn't exist yet! :)

We do sort of suggest the scope, there's one version thats $100 - they're pretty nifty!
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:04 pm

1) ima get a tattoo that reads "various reasons"

2)feckiti'll buy the scope. half price ya say? bargaiun.

3) see my custom solder extractor? it pwns!
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby pstemari » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:22 am

I still have about three tubes of IC's and a ton of $$$ wire-wound resistors, etc, from my abortive project to make an auto-ranging DVM in college.

I went back and looked at the schematics a couple months ago, and it definitely had issues--not to mention that the chip count was over a dozen IC's, including one 40-pin banned.
--Paul

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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:07 am

holy mackerel. here was me thinking that the bulk of the function would be built into maybe a couple of ICs, or that an entire voltmeter could be built into say, one 40 pin banned. was the autoranging aspect a big factor in the complexity? or was it just complex because it had to measure different volt ranges that you ended up with a big list of ICs?
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:12 am

no way dude! AWESOME find!

just checked out Elenco's website, they have a vast selection of educational electronic kits for younger people or children, or people taking up electronics for the first time. Seems their projects and toys are bundled with some educational resources too for teaching the basics of the areas of science covered by the projects. Looks like a great company if one is looking for projects for teaching kids about the technology, and also the science behind it all.

Awesome find! Their multimeter kit has the main IC and surface mounts already in place, so the kit looks like it would be good as a beginners soldering project. Full instructions are also provided (download pdf free of charge) on assembly and calibration.

Thanks so much for finding it, Franklin!
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby adafruit » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:37 pm

ha cool! yeah that would be a fun kit to make - but im not sure how much you'd learn cuz the brains of it is epoxied, not open source, etc :(
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:24 pm

indeed Ada; but at first glance I dooooo like the look of this company "Elenco", because what seems to be open source is their instruction manuals and documentation.

nowhere near as good as AFI projects, but yeah, looks pretty cool!

give em a ganders! :D

http://manuals.elenco.com/

this in itself isn't that fantastic, but when you factor in that these manuals, products and designs seem to be original american designs; (or at least original american manuals written after in depth analysis of products and designs!) then it becomes of informative value :D and as such, I think these manuals are also designed to be as scientifically educational as they are liturgical.

my guess regarding the multimeter is that your appraisal (that multimeters are very complex!) is dealt with by Elenco, by them producing a kit that indeed, has an epoxy'd central IC.

heh all the making of the kit is just peripheral power and signal IO circuitry, so simple enough for beginners but also on par with the challenge of say a TV-B-Gone.

but yes, all the fun stuff is inside that big black blob of plastic LOL. bit of a shame! but then I think it was pstemari who said earlier that he went about trying to make a multimeter and drowned in ICs?! yikes! even I am not crackers enough to go down that road LOL.

but keep an eye out for my next posting, which will be under the Solar Li-Poly Charger section. that should be pretty crackers; we're going wayyyyy beyond the lab on this one, we're hitting the streets! :D :D

"why give an interview; when you can leave a warning?!" - Charlie Sheen
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby pstemari » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:52 pm

Getting autoranging to work without frying the inputs is quite tricky. Lots of analog switches shifting 0.1% wirewound resistors in and out of the circuit.

Plus, rigging autoranging logic out of discretes was a pain. The main chip was the Intersil 7106, with a bunch of XOR gates to translate the LCD outputs to logic levels, a 7seg->BCD decoder, an up/down counter, a bunch of Schmidt triggers for button debouncing, etc, etc, etc.
--Paul

A wholly owned subsidiary of:
Persephone: DL R+W+B C 7 X L W C++ I++ T+ A E H++ S+ V-- F+ Q P B PA+ PL
Aldebaran: DM Rt H 5 Y L- W+ C+ I++ T++ A+++ E H++ S+ V+ F++ Q+ P B++ PA- PL--
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:09 pm

I suspected that the autoranging was a substantial part of the complexity! Do you think / know that making a multimeter with manual ranging would be a lot simpler?

Because here's the deal; manual meters DO autorange.... I automatically choose a setting that I know will be safe, if there is any uncertainty, and then I automatically narrow down to settings better suited to what I am measuring! If I know what to expect, then too do I automatically choose the correct setting!

I might ask why you even thought it worthwhile to make an autoranging meter?! Lemme guess, it's a lot more complex than a manually ranged meter, and the challenge was what inspired you?! :D Well done if so!

I might also ask you, what do you think of the prospect of making a basic manual meter (perhaps just A V O), in the size of a banned carton? Ada already pointed us towards a glorious tool the size of an iWhatever that is not just a meter, but a full oscilloscope! But I'd like to know if you've explored basic manual avometer designs before? And if they are still rather complex, and/or if the meters currently on the market are already "about as small as they can reasonably be made" :)

many thanks to everyone contributing to this thread thus far, it has really been productive and informative!

I can't wait to see what conclusions we come to because I may either end up building something or buying something awesome LOL :D
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Re: Ada! design us a compact Multimeter Kit!

Postby bobfixesstuff » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:33 am

guess what I found?!

a tiny AVOmeter! very very small!

made by Skytronics, has an on/off switch, does it all but transistors, perfect! product number 600.005. 100mm tall by 45mm wide and 20mm deep! awesome!
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