c0ntr0l replacement - expressions of interest required

[j00lz]

Hey Guys,

I recently lost my job (software developer) and have decided to set up my own software development / consulting business.

I currently have some spare time and have decided to build upon the framework I have already developed to convert Rebirth 303 patterns into c0ntr0l/x0xb0x format.

c0ntr0l as I see it is dead in the water. Some bugs have been found and reported, some fixes proposed and implemented, but unfortunately the SourceForge repository is not being maintained.

These bugs are show-killers; it is currently impossible to backup all x0xb0x patterns and restore them in a reliable way!

I don't know much about Python, and I am not interested in learning it.

I have started work on a new x0xb0x control application. At this stage, I can reliably communicate with my x0xb0x e.g. request and send/store patterns. The framework is ready, I am now starting work on the GUI.

My intention is to provide features that will allow the complete management of patterns, e.g read/write to the box, edit, save and load individual patterns or batches/banks of patterns.

I am developing the application in .Net/C# because that is what I am the most fluent/familiar with. This should hopefully ensure the app can eventually run on all platforms (thanks to Mono).

What I am after is your input on what features you would like to see implemented, particularly as far as pattern editing/manipulation is concerned.
Feel free to list as many things as you can think of. For each feature, it would be good if you could add a measure of "how important" the feature is to you, using the "MoSCoW" scale, e.g. Must, Should, Could, or "Would be nice" (or "Won't" if your a pessimist ). That way I can make sure I implement the most required features first.

Finally, I am trying to think of the best way to license the software. I know this is a thorny issue and although I do love free software I also have to somehow make enough dough to pay bills and feed myself. I would like to know what your opinion is on the most appropriate way for me to do so. Do you think donationware would work? How much would you be prepared to donate?

[darffader]

It should be free and open source, just like the x0xb0x and all it's software is.

Also, I doubt you can get it working with Mono framework on other platforms. However I'd love to see it.

[antto]

yeah
and converting patterns isn't so hard..
what's currently not working is backup/import EEPROM file..

[Luap]

Nice project! The pattern backup & restore function would be great As would more dependable USB connections. It has always been very hit & miss for many users.

As for licensing.. Err, don't know!? But yes, the x0xb0x project is open source, so it stands to reason that this should follow a similar path. That said, im sure if you requested donations, in a Donateware kind of style, you would certainly get some.

Hmm, what else.. Perhaps an ability to import patterns from midi files or ABL files? ABL being at least a semi standardised way of recording pattern data. IE:

d-3 0 1 0
c-5 0 0 0
b-4 1 0 1
c-4 0 0 0
g#5 1 0 1
(etc etc)
The last 3 digits being Rest on/off. Accent & Slide on/off.

Good luck with it

[dnigrin]

Lots of support here for you to do this!

I also have some reservations about C#/.NET and Mono on a Mac, but if there's an easy way to package it all up so that it's invisible to end users, and they just double click the app like any other, that's fine.

Feature suggestion: export patterns as text and/or XML, for easy posting online in forums, etc...

I'm on the fence re: licensing and free/not free. I agree with what others have said about the x0x being all about open source and stuff, but at the same time, I know how frustrating it can be to develop software that no one pays for. My personal experience with donationware is that it doesn't work - you *will* get some people sending some money in, but the vast majority won't. My suggestion: make the source open, but still charge for the compiled apps, and make that charge a small enough amount that people are not put off by it, and see it as just a token compensation for your work. Also with the source open, if there are any issues with the Mono port to Mac, etc.., that way another enterprising person could port it to regular C++ or Java or something...

[j00lz]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I was expecting any mention of retribution to raise controversy. I don't want to get drawn into lengthy discussions on the topic, but I do have an opinion.

While the plans for the box may be open source, the x0xb0x isn't "free" as in free beer. How much did yours cost? Limor presumably made some money out of it. I would also be surprised if the developer who wrote c0ntr0l didn't get some kind of compensation for his time. I also like to have a beer or two. ... Ultimately I do not care much for money, as long as I have a roof over my head when it rains, some food when I'm hungry, and a little bit of love. Love I don't have to pay for, but food and roof I do.

"I doubt you can get it working with Mono framework on other platforms. However I'd love to see it."
You are giving me extra-motivation to prove you wrong Feel free to send me your spare Mac to speed-up porting times.

"converting patterns isn't so hard.. what's currently not working is backup/import EEPROM file.."
"Hard" is subjective. Its all a matter of time and resources. I mean, with a big enough engine I could easily make a stone fly... I am at the stage were I can reliably export and import the EEPROM contents to/from file. It wasn't "hard", it just took a little bit of time. People regularly sell x0xb0xes for far more than the building cost (read: they make a PROFIT), nobody objects to this. This is not the MidiBox project (which I respect and fully support). I am spending time developing something people want, it is not unreasonable to expect some kind of compensation. Please understand, I am not trying to get rich here... Just trying to make ends meet while at the same time providing something that is useful to the x0xb0x community...

The software I write will most likely end up being open source. How much software you get will depend on how much time I can dedicate to writing it. My plan is to release early, and release often. So the initial release will most likely have a limited set of features. How often "often" is will depend on resources. How's that for a licensing model?

Now back to the features...
- Full backup and restore of the entire pattern set is top of the list.
- Patterns from MIDI files would be very nice indeed.
- What does ABL stand for? AudioRealism BassLine? I will have to research this.
- Import of Rebirth patterns will be in the initial release, since it "isn't so hard" and was already implemented (and free)

[darffader]

"I doubt you can get it working with Mono framework on other platforms. However I'd love to see it."
You are giving me extra-motivation to prove you wrong Feel free to send me your spare Mac to speed-up porting times.

if you dont mind paying postage for sending a G4/733 mhz to wherever you live, its all yours

otherwise, might wanna check the hackintosh route

I myself also have plans to make a native OSX Cocoa app to do all this, but I don't have time for any new projects in the near future.
I also wanna wait and see what the other novelties will bring: n0nx0x, new CPU with more space..
Especially the serial communication part with the FT232 chip is kinda painful, it would be great if the x0x could receive/send everything over standard midi using sysex. It would also be great if the FT232 chip would be used as a serial midi interface. It is possible I think, using the Roland Serial Midi driver on windows, and a lot of code in the new cpu. I haven't found a serial midi driver for OSX yet.

[j00lz]

if you dont mind paying postage for sending a G4/733 mhz to wherever you live, its all yours

Postage to Australia should be free and open source like the x0xb0x and all its software

Actually the Hackintosh idea is a very good one. I'll see if I can get this running in VirtualBox.

[Luap]

- What does ABL stand for? AudioRealism BassLine? I will have to research this.
- Import of Rebirth patterns will be in the initial release, since it "isn't so hard" and was already implemented (and free)

Yes, Audiorealism Bassline. It's one of the better software (plugin) clones (This can also import Rebirth patterns incidentally).

If I save a pattern in ABL, then open up the saved file in a text editor, it looks like this:

; ABL2 Meta tag: 32
; Tune: 0.500000 Cutoff: 0.630000 Resonance: 0.090000 Envmod: 1.000000 Decay: 1.000000 Accent: 1.000000 Waveform: 1.000000 Distort: 0.140000 Drive: 0.140000 Volume: 0.555000 DistType: 0.000000 HighPass: 0.000000 Tempo: 120.000000
b-2 1 1 1
b-2 1 0 1
b-2 0 0 1
g-2 1 0 1
b-2 1 1 0
b-2 1 1 0
b-4 1 0 1
a-2 1 1 1
a-2 1 0 1
f-2 1 1 1
f-2 1 0 1
c-5 1 1 0
c-2 1 0 1
g#4 1 1 1
g#4 1 0 1
c-3 0 0 1
b-2 1 1 1
b-2 1 0 1
f-2 0 0 0
f-2 1 1 0
b-4 1 1 1
c-3 0 0 1
d#3 1 0 0
b-2 1 1 1
b-2 1 0 1
a#4 1 1 0
a#4 1 1 0
a-4 1 0 1
e-3 1 0 1
e-3 1 1 0
e-2 1 1 1
e-2 0 0 1

Generally, it is just the note, rest slide & accent data you want out of that. ABL will also show you your patterns in this format within the plugin if you want, and allow you to copy and paste out of it into a similar text file or whatever, so it is quite flexible.

Re the Hackintosh idea.. I was looking into this myself only yesterday, as I want to replace my ageing Powerbook (It struggles to even play a Youtube video these days). I think i'll get a Dell Mini 10v. Dirt cheap, and very popular in the Hackintosh community as it accepts OS X with minimal screwing around. This article makes it look all too easy!?
http://gizmodo.com/5389166/how-to-hacki ... e=true&s=x

[antto]

and btw, ABL (FreeBee pattern format) is "note" "Gate" "Slide" "Accent" where the last 3 are 0 or 1

there might be a "standartized 303 pattern file format" soon available, it might unify some software clones as well ass the n0nx0x firmware
that's just in my head right now ;]

[darffader]

@Luap
Yeah Dell Mini works nicely
Lenovo S10 too
MSI Wind too.

However those ATOM cpu's are slow and not supported (read: blocked) by Snow Leopard (which means troubles when updating)
You'd be better off popping a spare hd in your pc and setting up a dual boot setup


Ontopic: I'd love to have a simple tool that does nothing more than load/dump the eeprom contents

[Luap]

@Luap
Yeah Dell Mini works nicely
Lenovo S10 too
MSI Wind too.
However those ATOM cpu's are slow and not supported (read: blocked) by Snow Leopard (which means troubles when updating)
You'd be better off popping a spare hd in your pc and setting up a dual boot setup

I did hope to get a Wind, but the good ones don't seem to be readily available here in the UK, whereas the Dell Mini's are all over the place.
As for slow.. You should see this old Powerbook I got! 1ghz G4 really doesn't cut it, even for browsing now. The Atom has to be better than that surely?! I do use that mainly as a browsing/email machine though. My main computer is an Intel iMac which will also run Windows XP very nicely, with no hacks required.

Anyways! This updated c0ntr0l idea really seems promising. I wouldn't have any issue with donating or paying a modest fee for it.

[antto]

...
I'd love to have a simple tool that does nothing more than load/dump the eeprom contents

+1

[dnigrin]

I also have no problem paying a modest amount - I'll even go out on a limb and put a number on it: $10. Doing a little quick math, say there's 1000 x0x's out there - that's a very conservative number I think, there are probably more. If only 1/10 of those people by your app, that's 100 x 10 = $1000, not bad at all, and for each individual purchaser, the price of a few fancy lattes....

[Altitude]

i got ten on it