Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by antto on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:12 am

well i'm trying to mimick the 303 sequencer behaviour in depth as well as add new features or improve some aspects of the old one (there are 16 additional LEDs so why not show the user where in the pattern he is..)

but the difference in the buttons is really nasty:
Image

it's only the section at the right..
x0x needs one more button there, but there isn't such
the compromise was to merge TIME MODE and BACK into the same button
thus.. more compromises must be made in the code
like.. in PitchMode on a 303 you can press BACK and go back 1 step
you can also press TIME MODE and go to TimeMode immediately
in n0nx0x i have to chose either Back or TimeMode (or use a key combination)
that sucks but it's the only way right now.. :roll:
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by altitude on Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:56 am

how about using the tempo encoder as the next/back?

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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by antto on Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:17 am

by pressing the Tempo button you are likely to change the tempo too
and it's not really intuitive for the Back button to be on the opposite direction (left side)
the only solution to this would be a propper new panel layout with 24 buttons positioned approximately like on the 303
IF the tempo button could be sepparated from the tempo knob.. and all of that can be rearanged - it'll work
but that's a nasty mod i guess :roll:
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by altitude on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:01 am

i was thinking more along the lines of when it is in edit mode turning it clockwise does next and moving it CClockwise advances it back. When you press run, it returns to controlling tempo

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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by illCarl on Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:25 am

antto wrote::shock: uhm..
i don't have a "mod" .. i'm just writing code and flashing it onto the x0xb0x CPU via USB
if you don't need the 303 (you gonna throw it away) sure, send it to me ;P~
textile is doing the actual CPU mod, it's a small PCB containing the new (bigger) CPU chip which has to be connected to the x0xb0x (thus the original x0xb0x CPU removed)
as for the firmware.. there are some issues..
TB-303 has 24 buttons, and 2 switches
x0xb0x has 23 buttons, 2 switches and 1 tempo encoder (with a button)
and there is a huge difference in the number of LEDs they have

so the n0nx0x code would have to be modified in order to work on a 303
EDIT: also, n0nx0x can't do some things the same way as on a 303 because of the number of buttons and how they are placed on the panel, so some changes/compromises had to be made


Hi Antto

Yeah I got that.. That's why Iu said "if you are bored".. :D



I think I have just one option left.. I'll get a x0xb0x, I'll midify my 303 and I connect it via midi. So I can use the x0xb0x sequencer to trigger the 303 synth. One question though (if someone knows): Is it still possible to use the pitch knob on the 303 even without a working CPU? In my setup describerd above the x0xb0x sequencer would trigger both the x0xb0x and the 303, so the same pattern is played. Howeverm if it is possible to use the x0xb0x and 303 pitch knob separaely, I should be able to play the x0xb0x 1 octave lower (or whatever the pitch knob is set to) then the 303.. which would sound quite nice :) Is this assumption correct?
EDIT: Also.. what about all other 303 knobs.. resonance, cutoff etc.? I thought these are all part of the analogue synth section?
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by altitude on Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:55 pm

illCarl wrote: One question though (if someone knows): Is it still possible to use the pitch knob on the 303 even without a working CPU?.. what about all other 303 knobs.. resonance, cutoff etc.? I thought these are all part of the analogue synth section?



All those are just analog controls independent of the CPU

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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by illCarl on Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:43 am

Altitude wrote:
illCarl wrote: One question though (if someone knows): Is it still possible to use the pitch knob on the 303 even without a working CPU?.. what about all other 303 knobs.. resonance, cutoff etc.? I thought these are all part of the analogue synth section?



All those are just analog controls independent of the CPU



This forum is AWESOME :) Love you guys ;)

Thanks Altitude.. That's what I thought :) One more question (should be the last one) :)

The x0xb0x is able to send midi AND CV out at the same time right? I read the manual and from what I understand the following should work.. but I'd rather check with you guys first before I get a x0xb0x:)

x0xb0x midi out to midified 303
x0xb0x CV out to 606 (yes I have a 606 too) ;)

Alternative:
x0xb0x CV out to CV splitter
CV splitter to 606 and 303

This would only work if the 303 / 606 CV in's are not depending on the CPU (I don't know, but I guess no).


At least I'd have the 3 machines running in sync :)
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by Brassteacher on Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:02 am

antto wrote:well i'm trying to mimick the 303 sequencer behaviour in depth as well as add new features or improve some aspects of the old one (there are 16 additional LEDs so why not show the user where in the pattern he is..)

but the difference in the buttons is really nasty:
Image

it's only the section at the right..
x0x needs one more button there, but there isn't such
the compromise was to merge TIME MODE and BACK into the same button
thus.. more compromises must be made in the code
like.. in PitchMode on a 303 you can press BACK and go back 1 step
you can also press TIME MODE and go to TimeMode immediately
in n0nx0x i have to chose either Back or TimeMode (or use a key combination)
that sucks but it's the only way right now.. :roll:


antto, why not make the button work on a "single click/double click" format? Press once for Back, or twice in rapid succession for Time Mode. Or press and release for Back, press and hold for Time Mode? With the latter, most people are accustomed to banned/CD player controls where press and release skips forward or back 1 track, while press and hold scans forward or back.
Don Taylor, a.k.a. Brassteacher
"Jack of all trades, master of none, proficient at even fewer..."
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by phono on Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:36 am

i would skip back in favour for time mode as time mode is used everytime, back isn't so useful since it only goes back one step and wont continue to go back any more steps when pressed (on a 303 that is)
Image
x0x #733 Image SH-101 MC-202 TB-303 TR-606 TR-808 TR-909 MKS-50 Juno-106 A-100 Virus-B E-6400 SX-150 Monotron
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by darffader on Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:09 pm

the nasty part is you'd expect function+back to be back,
but no, wont work, because function escapes the time mode :)
or in pitch mode, it goes to timemode when you press it.
maybe:
next+back = back?
the bad part is it will advance one step first.

oh well.. Who ever used the back key anyway?
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by antto on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:18 am

NEXT+BACK won't work, because when you press NEXT it advances to the next note and Plays it immediately

also, there are other differences in the buttons:
STEP and TRIPLET on the 303 are the DOWN and UP buttons (look at the picture at the top)
STEP and TRIPLET on n0nx0x are the ACCENT and SLIDE buttons
well, we could actually change that but there isn't much room there for the labels
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by illCarl on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:18 am

Ok.. decision taken now: Once my techie confirms the analog part of the 303 is ok, I will

a) buy a x0xb0x
b) midify my 303
c) x0xb0x midi out to 303 midi in so I can programm the patterns on the x0xb0x and have both the x0x and the 303 playing simultaneously
d) connect the x0xb0x sync out to my 606
e) connect the x0xb0y cv out to my MAM MB33

:D

3 x 303 sound plus my 606 :P When running with different pitches the 3 303's will sound great :D
Thanks to all for your help :) All I need to do is find a decent x0xb0x for a fair price :)
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by antto on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:33 pm

maybe it's important to note that:
the x0xb0x adafruit firmware uses MIDI-Out (it sends what it plays as midi notes) (stable)
the SokkOS firmware uses MIDI-Out too (stable)
n0nx0x currently (beta 1.02) does not have MIDI-Out (NOT stable)

so if you planned to use n0nx0x for this.. you'd need to use the CV/Gate (and Accent) outputs from the x0x and have a CV/Gate/Accent INPUTs on your 303 (mod needed)
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by illCarl on Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:00 pm

antto wrote:the x0xb0x adafruit firmware uses MIDI-Out (it sends what it plays as midi notes) (stable)
the SokkOS firmware uses MIDI-Out too (stable)
n0nx0x currently (beta 1.02) does not have MIDI-Out (NOT stable)

so if you planned to use n0nx0x for this.. you'd need to use the CV/Gate (and Accent) outputs from the x0x and have a CV/Gate/Accent INPUTs on your 303 (mod needed)


Thanks for the info Antto. It's ok, I'll be using the standard adafruit firmware. Never touched a x0xb0x before, so I'll go for the standard :) I just found a modded x0xb0x with 2 osc's on ebay.. might be worth bidding :)
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Re: Recreating the original TB 303 CPU? Is it really that hard?

by balrog on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:42 pm

I'm sorry for bringing back such an old thread, but does someone have a dead TB-303 CPU? Even just one could go a long way to making this a reality.
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