Technology Transplant / Chahae Yasaena "chipforbrains" extorts and threatens Adafruit

[antto]

cutoff iirc should be 50K "log" pot

[phono]

cutoff iirc should be 50K "log" pot

this is correct

http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch ... P3L2503-ND

[isak]

no. Isak is still here and a welcome member of the community. In the 6 years I have been here, no one has ever been banned.

Altitude,

he was not talked about me, he talked about Helyx525 (Dan).
he got banned by Adafruit with no good reason, all he did is organize a group buy that eventually was a great success.
they did got him back after a while but he didnt wanted to stay in our forum coz of Adafruit action, i totally agree with him.
i said it before and i say it again..our community have lost a brilliant guy and a great friend (Dan), he wanted to contribute so much of his knowledge to us.
for example..
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15778

i hope things will be fixed as soon as possible, i dont want no body to get heart no more!

peace,
Isak.

[Altitude]

I stand corrected then. I have no idea what that was all about so I will leave it at that

*edit

You know, I just read that whole thread and I totally agree with what Phil did. Sux that Dan was caught in the middle, but we cannot allow that kind of banned to go on. The work that was done by adafruit is given out freely without and strings attached OTHER than giving credit. I dont buy any of Cy's endless excuses why he didnt add what was needed, you dont have to even know HTML to add text to an auction. He is making piles of money selling these and if he cant even do comply with those almost insignificant requirements, F him.

I am starting to also lean towards a "send TT ppl back to TT for support" stance. This is heavy handed and the same policy is in place with the midibox community and I am not entirely comfortable with it but think of it this way: This is no different that a company taking software from sourceforge and selling it as their own then expecting the original publisher to support it

[Robin-Whittle]

Short version: An attempt to illuminate some aspects of this dispute
which haven't been properly mentioned in this thread.

After some correspondence with Cy, here are some of my guesses -
informed or otherwise - about this situation.

Cy (and other TT people) are upset about some threads in this forum,
including thread:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=15930

started by Limor on 2010-05-29 with the title "BUYER BEWARE -
Chahae Yasaena cy Technology Transplant". This thread is currently
the 4th or 5th (I tried two browsers on two computers) result in a
Google search for "Technology Transplant". On one browser, this 5th
result had three sub-results of the same type under it, and results 6,
7 and 8 were for the same thread, all with the "BUYER BEWARE" text
on the results page.

This is a significant and I think unreasonable burden on Technology
Transplant - it damages their reputation and so makes it harder for
them to conduct business and earn their living.

I think the thread itself contains some supportive comments about
TT, some reasonable criticism and some things which are really
unreasonable. For instance, Limor wrote:

> past and current customers of his and people who have worked
> with cy sent us dozens of horrible stories. it appears he has
> only done harmful things to the community and customers.

Below that, dngrin queries these "dozens of horrible stories". Isak
(2010-07-29) reports that the group buy went well and that the
x0xb0xes had proper attribution of the design.

Limor's unsubstantiated broad-brush criticism continued in the
current thread:

> many people have came forward with cy / technology transplant
> horror stories,

Limor, I think such extremely condemning statements, made without
any substantiation, are hard to distinguish from slander.

In particular, I think your earlier statement: "it appears he has only
done harmful things to the community and customers." is mean-
spirited and at odds with reality. TT has plenty of positive feedback
in their eBay account and I (and so many Devil Fish customers) have
had very positive experiences with their replacement pots and other
parts for the TB-303. Other people report positive TT experiences
on your own forum.

Cy is also upset by a comment made by "textile" (2010-06-21):

http://www.adafruit.com/forums/viewtopi ... 55&start=6

regarding TT being able to assemble units at a lower cost than other
people:

> Its a lot of work to build one of these units , I guess thats ok
> when you have lots of people willing to work for a bowl of rice ..
> or two.

I guess this was a careless remark, the product of a few second's of
not-so-great thought - but it comes across as racist, dismissive and
of accusing TT of exploiting workers.

All sorts of banned is written in forums, and moderators usually only
remove stuff which is particularly offensive. Still, as part of
understanding what's going on between TT and Adafruit.com, I think
it needs to be recognised that people can easily have their feelings
hurt by archived, public, statements such as this.

Likewise, it is clear that Limor and others at Adafruit.com have been
frustrated with inadequate communication and responses from Cy/TT
regarding attribution of the x0xb0x design, and some earlier
problems of referring TT customers to their email addresses for
support.

The website adafruitindustries.com now has all its files
removed.

As far as I can tell, it wasn't created by Cy - but by someone else who
is part of TT. I don't have a clear idea of the individuals involved in
TT, but Cy is one of them - and he does not own the business. This
site was at the same hosting company as the TT site, so I feel sure
it was created by someone who is part of TT - someone who should
be ashamed of their stupid and offensive actions.

In the Analogue Heaven mailing list recently (2011-01-06) Altitude
pointed out problems with the current TT eBay page for their
x0xb0xes and that "Due to the constant stream of technology
transplant customers coming to adafruit site for help with either
kits or completed boxes which all have a variety of problems (wrong
parts, bad parts, incorrectly built boards), a warning was issued
about the TT boxes and kits." Its actually more than "a warning",
since Limor's criticism is more broad-brush and harsh than that.

There were two major problems with the eBay page:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0516602247

Firstly, the text which attributed the source of the design, in quotes
below, was white on a white background, so it could not be read
except by highlighting it.

> For more information about the xoxbox, software,
> manauls, mods and many other surprising fruity things.
> Please use the forums at where the "x0xb0x originally
> designed by Adafruit industries" still are hosted I by
> no means endorse.

Secondly, the link was to adafruit.con rather than adafruit.com.

I think that the bad English and "by no means endorse" was
amateurish and disrespectful and would have lead many people to
regard the incorrect link as insulting.

I wrote to Cy about this. He replied that he had not known of these
problems and that he would fix them. A few hours later I noticed the
text had been changed. The quoted text is visible and the URL is
correct:

> For more information about the xoxbox, software,
> manauls, mods and many other surprising and fruity things.
> Please use the forums at where the "x0xb0x originally
> designed by Adafruit industries" still are hosted.

There's still room for improvement, I think, but Cy fixed the major
problems quickly. The files in the new site were also deleted around
this time.


Limor, I understand you and your colleagues have been and are still
unhappy with Cy/TT. I think that Cy is part of TT and that there is
at times a lack of wisdom and proper respect for others at work in
whatever management structure TT has. The offensive website was
extraordinarily stupid and vile.

If I was running a forum or some other kind of website containing
pages which for some reason became very prominent in search
engine results for another company, and those pages and/or the title
of them in the search results, was extremely and unreasonably
negative about that company, I would remove the pages. I would
replace them with a message to the effect that they had been
removed, because of the unreasonable impact they had on another
business. I would archive the pages in a password protected page
that search engine spiders can't enter, so anyone who wanted to
read the pages could do so.


If I was in the position of Cy and whoever else makes up TT, I would
be seriously aggrieved about the impact these forum pages had on
TT's reputation and so the ability of the company to conduct its
business. I like to think I would have responded in a more
constructive and less despondent manner, but I don't have the
experience of these people, working in difficult circumstances, in a
completely different country from Australia or the USA, investing
hugely in injection molding dies and other major items as is
necessary to produce their unique products for an uncertain and
limited market.

In my view, Technology Transplant do good work. There are
inevitable problems with some things being technically not right, and
with some instances of poor communication and responsiveness. Its
hard to run a business in a complex technical field, with customers
all over the world, and have a perfect track record. I don't do as well
in my own business as I would like to.

More than that, TT do things that no-one else has invested the time
and energy to achieve. They have produced a number of parts which
involve injection molding, which requires major investments in
design and tooling. They have found companies who can make parts
which the original manufacturers stopped producing in the 1980s.

Without their replacement parts, thousands of musicians and
technicians all over the world would be in a much worse position -
and equipment which is running happily today would be dead. TT do
not charge unreasonable prices for their parts. As sole suppliers
they could charge twice the amount or more and still probably sell the
same quantity.

Likewise, Adafruit Industries does great work - unique work in
musical instruments and other fields beyond.

There's no doubt more to this dispute than what I wrote above, but I
hope that illuminates some of the reasons why TT people are upset
and my view that Adafruit.com could take actions to resolve a lot of
TT's concerns.

This is no defence of whoever it is who made the adafruitindustries.com site. Whoever it was in TT who
is responsible for this owes Adafruit Industries a big apology - and I
think they should transfer the control of the domain to Adafruit
Industries ASAP.

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[adafruit]

he got banned by Adafruit with no good reason, all he did is organize a group buy that eventually was a great success.

isak, that is not correct. we asked dan not to use our forums to arrange a group buy for cy when it was clear cy was doing things to hurt us as well as the adafruit & x0xb0x community. dan at first did not want to wait while we attempted to work with cy so we temporarily suspended his account and it was restored immediately with dan's assistance. we talked to dan each day, forwarding emails from cy, he knew everything that was happening and understood clearly. here is a message from dan...

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Dan wrote:
> I am not happy about this, but I understand where you are coming from.
> I understand some of your concerns... You
> deserve credit for your work and I have never disagreed with that.

he later said...

I will consider rejoining the forums when I feel that this situation is sufficiently settled.
I'm working on another project at the moment and that has my full attention at this time.

dan is welcome here at any time, we did our best to handle all of this professionally.

[adafruit]

This is no defence of whoever it is who made the adafruitindustries.com site. Whoever it was in TT who is responsible for this owes Adafruit Industries a big apology - and I think they should transfer the control of the domain to Adafruit Industries ASAP.

hi robin, as you can see cy emailed us and demanded $100,000 for the domain - he created it to extort us as well as use it to confuse customers. the email came from his email address at technology transplant, his IP address. he has not replied to our requests besides the first email we've posted in this thread.

however, his ISP reviewed the site and forced him to remove our copyrighted graphics, they also told us cy had requested a "clone" of adafruit.com - this was his actual words to his ISP who provides hosting. the ISP did not like this of course. he also made "sexual" images that the ISP noted when we spoke to them.

we appreciate you taking the time to put together an overview. we've only asked cy to follow the licensing on our design, and from the start cy has claimed he did not need to, claiming we did not design the x0xb0x and later only offering to credit us if he could be the "exclusive" maker of the clones. here is an email from him to us after we requested he follow the licensing and credit our design:

Should I be solely authorized and promotoed by Adafruit. Perhaps, this would of course be more motivational in fulfillment of such request in expedited fashions as requested. Sincerely, cy

his own words and actions speak for themselves.

last year we requested he update his ebay information as you described and he told us he had "too much back pain". we're glad to see cy responds nicely to you - thanks for assisting with that.

if cy has any issues with us, he can email us directly, if you're in communication with him please encourage him to do so. we are always willing to publicly or private resolve any issues, so far cy has not.

thank you,
adafruit

[Altitude]

Robin, just to clarify "Adafruit" is not Limor, she goes by "Ladyada", this would be Phil (correct me if I am wrong)

[Robin-Whittle]

Hi Altitude, Thanks for pointing out my mistake. What I wrote
previously about Limor should refer to Phil instead.

Phil, I think it is a mistake to assume Cy==TT. There's definitely more
than Cy involved in the company, and I have a strong impression that
while Cy has a low opinion of you guys, and few hopes for improving
the situation, that someone else was behind this false and offensive
website. If you would like to forward the "extortion" message you
attribute to Cy to me, with full headers, I will take a look at it and
try to discern the probability that he actually sent it. I won't necessarily
be able to turn anything up, but just because you got an email from
someone using his email address in the From: line doesn't mean he
sent it. Even "his IP" address could be that of a DSL modem used by
other people in the same office.

I am not defending whoever made this site or wrote that message.

What do you say in response to my suggestion that some of what you
wrote about TT is unreasonable to the point of slander, and to my
suggestion that some of your forum pages, with boldface titles you
apparently created, are so prominent in Google searches that they
are an unreasonable burden on TT?

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[adafruit]

Phil, I think it is a mistake to assume Cy==TT. There's definitely more than Cy involved in the company, and I have a strong impression that
while Cy has a low opinion of you guys, and few hopes for improving the situation, that someone else was behind this false and offensive website. If you would like to forward the "extortion" message you attribute to Cy to me, with full headers, I will take a look at it and try to discern the probability that he actually sent it. I won't necessarily be able to turn anything up, but just because you got an email from someone using his email address in the From: line doesn't mean he sent it. Even "his IP" address could be that of a DSL modem used by other people in the same office.

the email came directly from cy "technology transplant", the same address and IP as his previous emails to us, he also used technology transplant <technology.transplant@gmail.com> with the same IP address as well.

we sent the request directly to him and he responded directly. the "fake" adafruit site is hosted on the same server as technology transplant, a person here in the forums emailed the fake adafruit site through their contact form and technology transplant replied, you can review the message here yourself and it's obvious they're part of this and it is a mistake to assume otherwise.

the post is here and the text below:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18854&start=30#p98066

Thank you for your response. However, my query was SENT FROM the offending site, "www.adafruitindustries.com", which is in the control of Mr. Chahea Yasaena. This query was NOT sent from the technology transplant site, nor from the chipforbrains website.

So, either you are connected to this website, or Mr. Chahea Yasaena has coded the offending website to link any inquiries back to you and your site. Either way, two companies, yours, and the REAL Adafruit Industries, are being discredited by this site. Perhaps it would be in the best interest of all if you would do whatever you can to help make sure this site is shut down.

If you can help, perhaps you will regain a customer.

Have a good day,
Don Taylor
GreenSynth™©

at the bottom of this post i've included headers from cy's / technology transplant last email to us as per your request.

What do you say in response to my suggestion that some of what youwrote about TT is unreasonable to the point of slander, and to my suggestion that some of your forum pages, with boldface titles you apparently created, are so prominent in Google searches that they are an unreasonable burden on TT?

no one from technology transplant has ever contacted us about any forum message from us or their customers. if you're in contact with them, please encourage them to do so.

robin, in the interests of disclosure for everyone here - can you post your business relationship with cy and/or TT. do you benefit from TT or cy in any way?

thanks,
adafruit

Begin forwarded message:
From: technology transplant <chipforbrains@yahoo.com>
Date: January 4, 2011 9:13:36 AM EST
To: phillip torrone <pt@adafruit.com>
Subject: Re: adafruitindustries.com

Return-Path: <chipforbrains@yahoo.com>
Envelope-To: pt@adafruit.com
Delivery-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 09:13:39 -0500
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Received: (qmail 33402 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2011 14:13:36 -0000
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[Robin-Whittle]

Hi Phil, You wrote:

> the email came directly from cy, the same address and IP as
> his previous emails to us.

The IP address in the headers you posted is 113.116.204.45 on 04 Jan
2011 06:13:36 PST.

Looking at messages I received, all signed by Cy and consistent with
communications I have had with him in the past, some messages in
September and November, and since 6 January came from a variety of
IP addresses in the 113.116.205/206/207 range. Two messages 2.5
hours apart had the same IP address and all the rest were different.
None of them were the 113.116.204.45 address you quote. Tracerouting
to this leads me to routers with names in Japan, and after that routers
without names. Googling "113.116.204" finds a bunch of forum
messages, all in Chinese, so these IP addresses are clearly of computers
in China. The ISP may dynamically assign addresses in this range to DSL or
3G wireless services so any one DSL / 3G modem or doesn't keep the same
IP address for long.

If you are consistently getting messages which you attribute to Cy, from
one IP address over a period of more than a few hours, then this is different
from my experience.

Nonetheless, it seems that whoever sent the email you pasted the
headers of had the password to the chipforbrains Yahoo account.

Maybe Cy did send all these messages. If so, he's a Dr Jekyll and Mr
Hyde character. Alternatively, perhaps there are multiple people at TT
with access to this email account, and one of them other than Cy wrote
to you and created the offensive site.

> we sent the request directly to him and he responded directly.

The trouble is, neither you or I can be absolutely sure that emails are
read or sent by any particular individual.

> the "fake" adafruit site is hosted on the same server as
> technology transplant,

That's not my recollection from when I read of the fake site in this
thread. Checking the IP addresses now, there is a big difference, as I
recall from then:

technologytransplant.com resolves to: 72.52.136.171 which is
reverse mapped to host4.leveltenhosting.com

adafruitindustries.com resolves to 209.59.165.162 which is
reverse mapped to host20.leveltenhosting.com

They are both at the same hosting company and the name of the
second-last router in the traceroutes makes me think they are in a data
centre in or near Washington DC.

> a person here emailed the fake adafruit site through their
> contact form and technology transplant replied, you can review
> the message here yourself and it's obvious they're part of this.

I entirely agree that the fake site was created by someone at TT. I am
not convinced it is Cy and I think it is more likely to be someone else
there.

> no one from technology transplant has ever contacted us about any
> forum message from us or their customers. if you're in contact with
> them, please encourage them to do so.

I have repeatedly encouraged Cy to contact you and to write to this
forum, but he does not want to, citing bad experiences in the past
which he did not describe in detail. I agree he should do this.

Still, what do you say to my suggestion that Cy and other people at TT
are quite reasonably upset at the the "BUYER BEWARE" thread you
started being so prominent in Google search results for their company's
name, and for your extreme and unreasonable (IMO) statements about
TT which I quoted in a message less than an hour ago?

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[isak]

i have few important things to say here..
i will be back later on, SABBATH diner is served right now.

i wish you guys SHABAT SHALOM for now

Robin-Whittle,
are you the Devil Fish guy... ?.. for real ?

[adafruit]

robin,

Nonetheless, it seems that whoever sent the email you pasted the headers of had the password to the chipforbrains Yahoo account. Maybe Cy did send all these messages. If so, he's a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde character. Alternatively, perhaps there are multiple people at TT with access to this email account, and one of them other than Cy wrote to you and created the offensive site.

if it's multiple people at TT then you'll need to agree that they know about all this and good companies do not make fake sites and demand ransom. if it's just cy, why would TT continue to work with him. same person(s), the same IPs, same hosting company, the DNS is registered to the same person, paid for by the same person. when we contacted his ISP they confirmed the fake adafruit site and technology transplant are paid for and owned by the same persons.

a forum member here emailed the fake adafruit site and technology transplant emailed them back. again, same person, same company, same everything.

we've provided everything you asked to "prove" what you requested.

you did not respond to our question. robin, in the interests of disclosure for everyone here - can you post your business relationship with cy and/or TT. do you benefit from TT or cy in any way?

I have repeatedly encouraged Cy to contact you and to write to this forum, but he does not want to, citing bad experiences in the past which he did not describe in detail. I agree he should do this.

it's probably not productive for you to be a middleman for cy or for TT, they cannot resolve any issues they have with a forum message unless he or TT contacts us.

Still, what do you say to my suggestion that Cy and other people at TT are quite reasonably upset at the the "BUYER BEWARE" thread you started being so prominent in Google search results for their company's name, and for your extreme and unreasonable (IMO) statements about TT which I quoted in a message less than an hour ago?

no one from technology transplant has ever contacted us about any forum message from us or their customers. since you're in contact with them, please encourage them to do so.

thanks,
adafruit

[Robin-Whittle]

Hi Phil, Thanks for your reply. I agree that the fake site and the email
messages associated with it are all from one or more people at TT.
I am not convinced this is all the work of Cy. My guess is that there is
at least one other person involved.

I can't prove it, but I suggest to you that this is possible. If so I think
there's more prospect for wiser minds prevailing in TT than if this is
the work of a single seriously conflicted individual.

You wrote:

> you did not respond to our question.

Sorry - I missed this from a message above:

> robin, in the interests of disclosure for everyone here - can
> you post your business relationship with cy and/or TT. do
> you benefit from TT or cy in any way?

My wife and I do the Devil Fish mods for TB-303s. This would not be
possible without TT's replacement pots - the 6 small pots from Tuning
to Accent. We also use their newly manufactured battery contacts and
battery compartment covers, though we could get by without these. I
ran out of replacement Resonance pots years ago - so I have been
using TT pots for some Devil Fishes since about the late 1990s. We
currently install fresh pots in most machines we work on, since we
think they will last longer than the originals - and the originals are often
very well used or already worn out.

The original pots were made by ALPS but it seems they stopped making
them in the early 1980s. TT has had had several models of replacement
pots made for them. The new ones (since early last year or late 2009)
are an improvement on their previous models and on the ALPS ones, in
part because they have no problem with the rotor cutting through the
conductive tracks.

I have no idea where to get such pots made. TT have pursued this and
invested in having them made. They have used my feedback about
previous models to choose a new design for current production. The
new pots are excellent, apart from needing to be mounted about 1.5mm
higher, due to their shaft being a little short. I understand they are
working on an improved model to correct this problem.

So my living depends, in part, on TT's products. I am perplexed and
troubled that someone from TT created this fake site and attempted to
extort payment from you.

I am also perplexed that you have twice failed to respond to my
concerns about some of your statements about TT, which I consider to
be grossly unreasonable, and about the costs to TT's reputation and
ability to do business due to the prominence in Google search results
of the "BUYER BEWARE" thread that you started and which you maintain
on this forum today.

I am not asking whether TT contacted you about this. I am asking
whether you stand by your comments I cited above, including:

> past and current customers of his and people who have worked
> with cy sent us dozens of horrible stories. it appears he has
> only done harmful things to the community and customers.

and

> many people have came forward with cy / technology transplant
> horror stories,

I am also asking how would you and your colleagues feel if Googling
"adafruit" lead to a results page with one or more highly ranked results
with "BUYER BEWARE" in the title, despite the complaint relating to a
small subset of all the work you have done for thousands of people?

- Robin http://www.firstpr.com.au/rwi/dfish/

[Altitude]

..
you did not respond to our question. robin, in the interests of disclosure for everyone here - can you post your business relationship with cy and/or TT. do you benefit from TT or cy in any way?

Ok, this is a little off base. I'm pretty sure Robin is not a TT agent and if you dont know who he is and why he may have dealings with TT, a quick google search will make it quite clear.