O-scope recommendation?

[Hamradio2008]

Back in school, ......

Yes back in the old days........ I had a whole circuit board to Multiply two signals. Nowadays there is no reason for those methods, who for example would design a thru hole component board now, components simply are not available except at the Dayton Hamfest swap meet ? For example Microchips new MCP9808 is only available in MSOP as the biggest package thats a 0.65mm pitch.

[cstratton]

Back in school, ......

Yes back in the old days........

There are many areas where technology has advanced greatly, and lets engineers be far more effective. The problem with the auto-set button is that in practical terms, it's not-deterministic. If you know _reliably_ what it's going to do, you might as well just do that yourself. For an engineer knowing what you are looking at is essential, not outdated - what the scope "thinks" is interesting may not be what really is.

For a very low-level technician who can perhaps afford to perform a specified task without thinking, they should be following a test plan that specifies the instrument settings - one where the instrument can't decide some day that a particularly aberrant example warrants different settings which might not be noticed or which may introduce measurement errors different from those of the usual settings.

A "reset" button that cancels all the advanced settings would be one thing - I've sometimes seen people use autoset that way in frustration when things are buried under too many levels of menus. But the problem is that returning to consistent state is not what the autoset button does - instead, it's asking an algorithm to guess for you.

[osbock]

Well, here's why I think I need a digital storage scope:
1. several of my current projects use ir control signals, and I need a way to accurately measure the pulses. These are kindof one shot (not repeating, so storage is called for. I know I can hook up a microcontroller and count cycles, but I'm lazy. I also like the idea of frequency counting. I bought an IRToy from dangerous prototypes, and it works, but the timing is off by quite a bit in scope mode.
2. I want something I can carry, and also something easy to do screen captures for blog posts, etc. I know I can take pictures of the screen, but that is so 90s
3. What's wrong with my 20 mHz el-cheapo analog scope? Aside from it's size, and lack of storage/digital features, the triggering is unreliable/finicky, the trace is fuzzy/hard to read (and yes, I've used the focus control)

I am thinking of getting one of the cheap logic analyzers. I borrowed a Salae Logic from a friend and found it good (though the software bogs down a bit with a lot of samples). I have the DP logic sniffer in my cart at Seeed right now, though I have managed to crash (badly) the open source software it uses when using it with the IRToy.

[bigmessowires]

I am thinking of getting one of the cheap logic analyzers. I borrowed a Salae Logic from a friend and found it good (though the software bogs down a bit with a lot of samples). I have the DP logic sniffer in my cart at Seeed right now, though I have managed to crash (badly) the open source software it uses when using it with the IRToy.

I've had my eye on those for a while. But in practice, I find that I use the oscilloscope mode of my HP1631D much, much more often than the logic analyzer mode, even when looking at digital signals. It's just so handy for finding problems with signal timing, signal quality, and voltage, which usually ends up being where I have the most problems.

[mwilson]

3. What's wrong with my 20 mHz el-cheapo analog scope? Aside from it's size, and lack of storage/digital features, the triggering is unreliable/finicky, the trace is fuzzy/hard to read (and yes, I've used the focus control)

It doesn't even have to be a cheap one. I did an A/B compare once against a really nice Philips 60-MHz traditional scope. We were measuring a system's processing time. A little timer circuit strobed an input at about 10Hz (realistic for the application), and we triggered on input and scoped the input and associated output. We wanted to see transit time and jitter. Even with the persistence turned all the way up and the focus tuned, reading the analog trace was an exercise in visual memory-- "Is that where it was before?" Grease pencil on the screen could have helped, but overall the measurement depended totally on reaction time, guesswork and subjective judgment.

On the DSO, the persistence control was "show me the last 5, or 10, or whatever traces." They all showed up on the screen where they were meant to be, all together, for as long as we wanted to look at them. !!!. The analog scope still does most things very well. They're still using it, but applications like this one fall outside.

I am thinking of getting one of the cheap logic analyzers. I borrowed a Salae Logic from a friend and found it good (though the software bogs down a bit with a lot of samples). I have the DP logic sniffer in my cart at Seeed right now, though I have managed to crash (badly) the open source software it uses when using it with the IRToy.

jawi welcomes bug reports, if it crashed coherently enough that you can give one. Besides that, I have an alternative OBLS client written in Python http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2476. At the very least, it should crash differently. AFAIK it's never been run with the IRToy. My next move, when I get some time, is to get RLE workng and run it with the Bus Pirate.

[osbock]

Cool! I'll check out your client. I reported the problem on the DP forums, and someone said they would relay it. Is there a more direct way to report the bugs?

I tried to build it from source to see if I could catch something in the debugger, but ended up giving up after the 3rd undocumented dependency that I had to hunt down....

[tobes49]

I've got an old Tektronics and a Picoscope.
I work in the automotive industry and the Pico is geared towards that industry, but I find myself moving over the pico because of the logging and trigger points.

It quite a nice scope to work with and includes some nice automotive functions but think it would struggle for electronics/logic analyser use.

[pburgess]

Saelig now has the Rigol DS1102E (100 MHz, 2 channel) at $399:

http://www.saelig.com/PSBE100/PSPC017.htm

I paid the same for the DS1152E (50 MHz version of this scope) a few months back, and have been quite satisfied with the capabilities for the money. Worst I can say is that the fan is loud and the plastic knobs are cheap and crack. Functionally though, it's gotten me out of a bind on several occasions and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for hobbyist use.

I don't work for Saelig; just got a newsletter email yesterday and was like, "Ooh, bargain!" and thought it worth mentioning in this thread. If you've had an eye on the 50 MHz Rigol, this is like extra bonus cake.

[adafruit]

*ahem* we may or may not have this exact item in the shop very very soon

[osbock]

You're killing me here.... Ah, I suppose it's good for me...

[andyx]

I can recommend the Rigol DS1152E or the similar DS1102E running at 100MHz. The DS1152E works perfect for a hobbyist. Check any of the Show and Tells I've been on and behind the piles of parts and tools sits my DS1152E. I tend to hop around to various projects, the software and USB connection allows me to store both the data and the scope configuration.

Andy P
@Enzyox

[alaxsxaq]

*ahem* we may or may not have this exact item in the shop very very soon

You wouldn't be referring to the DS1102E at around $400, would you? This is on my Christmas wish list and I was about to suggest that Santa pull the trigger on the other site which has a free 'upgrade' the DS1102E for the price of the DS1052E.

Adafruit is my go-to place to order electronics stuff and I'd be more than happy to wait and buy from you since you provide so much great info and cool products to this community.

So, has Rigol decided to get rid of the DS1052E and just sell the DS1102E for the same price? With the fact that the hardware is pretty much the same and the ease with which the software can be upgraded, why would they maintain the charade of selling the 1102 for nearly twice the price of the 1052?

[adafruit]

*ahem* we may or may not have this exact item in the shop very very soon

You wouldn't be referring to the DS1102E at around $400, would you? This is on my Christmas wish list and I was about to suggest that Santa pull the trigger on the other site which has a free 'upgrade' the DS1102E for the price of the DS1052E.

Adafruit is my go-to place to order electronics stuff and I'd be more than happy to wait and buy from you since you provide so much great info and cool products to this community.

So, has Rigol decided to get rid of the DS1052E and just sell the DS1102E for the same price? With the fact that the hardware is pretty much the same and the ease with which the software can be upgraded, why would they maintain the charade of selling the 1102 for nearly twice the price of the 1052?

we will post to the blog the minute we get in our shipment but unfortunately we do not have any ETA right now. it's all good news and we'll be able to share it soon!

[jwhance]

Oscilloscopes are often a VERY personal choice. In the old days you had your "HP" camp vs. the "Tektronix" camp. Both companies made great products and I always wanted a nice Tek scope but they were well beyond my hobbyist budget. About 25 years ago I bought a shiny new Hitachi V-212 20MHz dual-trace scope and it's served me well since I bought it. I think you can find them for aroud US$100 these days, used but in great shape.

Digital scopes are really nice but there are some things you just can't see on a digital model. I've love to have a 2-4 trace digital scope or even a nice low-end logic analyzer but that will have to wait...

[JimG]

Bump.

Any news to report on the scope evaluation?