Getting a more 303 sounding box..
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by antto on Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:04 am

no need to try to replicate that, it should be the same
but this vca release tail got me fooled long ago, and probably that's why i've said the "5.25" thing... :oops:
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:51 am

any suggestions as to what R138 should be set - above or below the 68 of original spec?got a pot but no noticeable change to decay
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:06 am

OK, so I have now recorded some reference wav's in the style of Dinsync (http://www.dinsync.info/2010/02/tb-303- ... 0xb0x.html). There are quite a few but I did ignore some of the lowest settings as there wasn't much of an output from them (same with Dinsync). I am planning to add some mods fairly soon, but before that I'd like to get my stock machine sounding its best. If anyone with a good ear for these things could provide some insight I'd be very grateful.

To me the sound has a harshness and doesn't have the required elastic/rubbery/'wump'/'wow' tone that I really associate with a 303. (Strangely these recordings sound nicer to me that what I am hearing either through my mixer/amp/monitors or headphones direct from the x0xb0x :? ).

All notes are standard low C on the keyboard without any octave shift, and each wav has 16 hits folling this pattern:

1. C saw
2. C saw accented
3. C square
4. C square accented
5. C saw (as above but with certain knob position changed...)
....
16.

Position percentages relate to the amount of Cutoff, Res, Env Mod, Decay, Accent

Also there is a bit of a pattern at the end with various knob movements to give a less static view of the sound. Reference sounds + Square then saw pattern

How do these appear? Anything obvious that I should be looking to change in my X0xb0x???? :?: :?: :?:

SET-A1.wav
position 1 25% 0% 0% 0% 0%
position 2 50% 0% 0% 0% 0%
position 3 75% 0% 0% 0% 0%
position 4 100% 0% 0% 0% 0%

SET-C1.wav
position 1 25% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 2 50% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 3 75% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 4 100% 50% 50% 50% 50%

SET-C2.wav
position 1 50% 25% 50% 50% 50%
position 2 50% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 3 50% 75% 50% 50% 50%
position 4 50% 100% 50% 50% 50%

SET-C3.wav
position 1 50% 50% 25% 50% 50%
position 2 50% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 3 50% 50% 75% 50% 50%
position 4 50% 50% 100% 50% 50%

SET-C4.wav
position 1 50% 50% 50% 25% 50%
position 2 50% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 3 50% 50% 50% 75% 50%
position 4 50% 50% 50% 100% 50%

SET-C5.wav
position 1 50% 50% 50% 50% 25%
position 2 50% 50% 50% 50% 50%
position 3 50% 50% 50% 50% 75%
position 4 50% 50% 50% 50% 100%

SET-D1.wav
position 1 25% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 2 50% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 3 75% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 4 100% 75% 75% 75% 75%

SET-D2.wav
position 1 75% 25% 75% 75% 75%
position 2 75% 50% 75% 75% 75%
position 3 75% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 4 75% 100% 75% 75% 75%

SET-D3.wav
position 1 75% 75% 25% 75% 75%
position 2 75% 75% 50% 75% 75%
position 3 75% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 4 75% 75% 100% 75% 75%

SET-D4.wav
position 1 75% 75% 75% 25% 75%
position 2 75% 75% 75% 50% 75%
position 3 75% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 4 75% 75% 75% 100% 75%

SET-D5.wav
position 1 75% 75% 75% 75% 25%
position 2 75% 75% 75% 75% 50%
position 3 75% 75% 75% 75% 75%
position 4 75% 75% 75% 75% 100%

SET-E1.wav
position 1 25% 100% 100% 100% 100%
position 2 50% 100% 100% 100% 100%
position 3 75% 100% 100% 100% 100%
position 4 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

SET-E2.wav
position 1 100% 25% 100% 100% 100%
position 2 100% 50% 100% 100% 100%
position 3 100% 75% 100% 100% 100%
position 4 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

SET-E3.wav
position 1 100% 100% 25% 100% 100%
position 2 100% 100% 50% 100% 100%
position 3 100% 100% 75% 100% 100%
position 4 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

SET-E4.wav
position 1 100% 100% 100% 25% 100%
position 2 100% 100% 100% 50% 100%
position 3 100% 100% 100% 75% 100%
position 4 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

SET-E5.wav
position 1 100% 100% 100% 100% 25%
position 2 100% 100% 100% 100% 50%
position 3 100% 100% 100% 100% 75%
position 4 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Last edited by rarara on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by antto on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:27 am

i haven't listened to your recordings, it requires me to login to google :?

but those reference recordings.. i wouldn't say they are ideal

the very first thing you need to do is calibrate TM3 against the 303
for that, it's best to have the 303 with all knobs to zero, cutoff and reso to max
or alternatively envmod and reso to max (depends how low the 303 is at)

i couldn't find a suitable portion of the recordings from dinsync.info that cover those cases
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:02 am

any idea of a 303 recording to reference tm3 against?
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by gurth on Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:28 pm

What made my x0x sound much much better was,

R97 mod


C-29 soldered the wrong way, I also noticed a difference in what brand you put inthere


Q11: instead of 2SC536F use the 2SC945 transistor just buy a view and record and pick the best out of it.

Ba662 believe it or not

Patience just let it play patterns for weeks


Hope this will help someone....
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:53 pm

antto wrote:i haven't listened to your recordings, it requires me to login to google :?

but those reference recordings.. i wouldn't say they are ideal

the very first thing you need to do is calibrate TM3 against the 303
for that, it's best to have the 303 with all knobs to zero, cutoff and reso to max
or alternatively envmod and reso to max (depends how low the 303 is at)

i couldn't find a suitable portion of the recordings from dinsync.info that cover those cases

Now got the recordings on Soundcloud which is a much better option :D

TM3 is about 3/4 turned clockwise. I did have it at full clockwise for a while but thought 3/4 would be nearer to the area it should be so thats what my examples were created with (incidentally, does any TM3 change need a subsequent TM4/5 recalibration?) but there are no sound examples out there of the knobs in the positions you specify
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by antto on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:47 pm

no, TM3 only adjusts the filter cutoff frequency offset
TM4 and TM5 are for the vco tuning
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:53 pm

OK, first thing done is I popped a 945 into Q11 (lowest beta out of the bunch - ~180) and no difference in sound (maybe I was expecting something impressive :? ). I did get the 945's for a price of 1UKP for 10 and they are marked C945 G528. Basically do you only get what you pay for? And should I only be looking to get NEC 945P's otherwise its a waste of time?

Additionally, there are lots of 733A's on ebay from HK/China which seem to be about 1UKP for 100. Are these worth getting to see if there are any high betas or should they not be touched with a barge pole? If not, where and what to get?
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by antto on Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:56 pm

i haven't tested Q11, but i wouldn't expect it to instantly make any "magical" difference in the sound
as for 733 - depends where you put them
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:42 am

but thats a different question - i wanted to know if a 945 is always a 945 regardless of source/price/brand?
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by antto on Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:43 am

i don't know
as long as it behaves according to the characteristics defined in the datasheet - it should be good
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
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VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by aminoacid on Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:52 am

Hi.

The 2sc945 comes in 4 hfe classes.

R
Q
P
K

I would have doubts about the G suffix...

Xox shop has got them!
my machines kills fascists!
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by rarara on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:31 pm

thats a pound ive wasted :evil:
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Re: Getting a more 303 sounding box..

by aminoacid on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:19 pm

i once bought 100 peices of 2sa733 from hongkong on ebay.

they also had a g suffix i think. i think "guest" pointed out they were a different transistor. 100 transistors in vain...

this can happen when buying transistors from shops aswell.

i bought 50 or 100 pieces os 2sa1085 from reichelt but they had wrong pinout and the hfe didnt match the hfe classification.

changing from 536 to 945 makes quite big change. that 6-9khz harshness dissapeared when i changed and im not looking back for 536.

however im willing to try out that other npn type... dont recall their name just now.
my machines kills fascists!
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