international sales

[zblob]

Hi! I am selling fun blinky electronics and I aspire to go international with my operation. there seems to be 2 elements of this:

(1) collecting international payments. i think i've got this figured out - visa/mc cards or paypal for smaller orders, wire transfer if i get a large one. google checkout seems to only handle US and UK currently. are there other payment systems recommended for certain countries?

(2) shipping - seems to be really two issues: the shipping company, and the customs paperwork/taxes.

(2a) fedex seems to handle customs adeptly (ie: without further intervention) in a couple of countries i've tried, but they also are a bit pricey ($65 for 0.5kg to europe). I see that USPS EMS service is about 1/2 the cost and USPS international priority is even less - but is there any 'gotcha' to using these services? for example it would be bad if the customer has to deal with extra customs mess on their end, or if we had to fill out lots more forms.

(2b) from what i can tell so far - any goods sent to the EU are charged about 20% VAT tax when imported (including VAT on ship cost!). is that really correct? does a customer expect that you will add this charge to their order, or is there a mechanism for them to pay it to their customs dept when they receive it? could a package be marked 'engineering sample' to avoid VAT when appropriate - it seems like this may be possible. Are there any other nations with ugly import taxes?

thanks!

-dan-

[hansp]

I can provide my own experiences from the customer perspective having lived in France and receiving quite a number of items from the US in particular.

First off, I find shipping very expensive. I know you, as a merchant do not set the prices but I can honestly say that I regularly abort an order when I find out how much shipping will be. I very much appreciate those sites who indicate shipping charges (even estimated) from within the shopping cart).

My experiences receiving packages shipped FedEx or UPS here in France have been uniformly bad. Most times I have to go to the depot to collect my package even though I have someone at home all the time. Complaining has no effect. Secondly in most every case when I have received a FedEx or UPS package from abroad there have been VAT and sometimes even duties charged, sometimes as much as I paid for the goods. Again I understand there is nothing you can do about this but as a customer, if FedEx and UPS are the only shipping options, I often abort the order.

My preferred shipping method is good old USPO, "snailmail". It gets here fast (between 4 and 10 days) and I have NEVER paid duty or VAT on items delivered by the mail man. This does appear to be a French particularity. Last year I received a mailed package from the US and paid no charges, a friend in the Netherlands receiving the same goods by the same means had to pay VAT.

In response to your specific questions about VAT etc, unless you have a presence in Europe or a a massive amount of sales these are not your problem, and we poor consumers here in Europe are resigned to often having to cough up another 20% whenever the carrier so demands it.

There that is my take on the situation. I really appreciate it when suppliers do ship international, and even more so I appreciate the site indicating that fact early and including shipping alternatives and pricing in the shopping cart before I get a shockwhen checkingout. Oh yes and USPO rules!!

--HansP

[Sixerdoodle]

I've done one international shipment so far. Used USPS to do the shipment, but be aware that you've got to provide paperwork on this end (customs form). This was awhile back to going from memory....

Needed a form 2976 or a 2976-A (USPS webpage here It's not obvious which form to use. One place seems to indicate if a $400 value breakpoint, another place says it's $400 -or- gtr then 16oz.

The people behind the counter didn't really know much about filling out the form. I believe I was given the 2976 (not the -A) and was over 16oz, but again that's from memory of several months ago. I also called it a "sample" since this was a single unit, not a big 'lot' shipment or anything.

Do believe the receiver did have to pay VAT, but package got there in once piece and in timely manner.

Any other experiences / suggestions?

Now what about RoHS compliance? In this case no one asked, I didn't say and everything went through, but was that luck?

[richms]

As a general rule as a non US customer, if I can find someone selling the same thing outside the US- either Asia or Europe I will order from there.

USPS has no tracking unless you pay a fortune, China/Hong Kong have EMS which is cheap and has tracking, not that its needed in my experience.

Missing stuff from the US is about 10% to me here, China - 0%, UK/EU - 0%

Too many places want to ship only using fedex or similar - again stupidly expensive.

Many people I know feel the same way. Until the US has some realistic and reliable international shipping that isnt more then what you are ordering then its just not worth the risk unless things are not available anywhere else.

[adafruit]

do realize that US domestic shipping is extraordinarily good and that, id hazard, the problems are when the package reaches your country!
interestingly, the vast majority of lost packages are people who give the wrong address, or move, or other mistakes. its quite rare to have a package really -lost-. most of the time the package is stuck in customs. packages from china dont get stuck in customs because it seems that they have no problem outright lying about the contents