Adafruit Industries, Essential service and business: NYC – Executive Order 202.6 - Read more. Accepting essential orders - here's how.
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USPS not an option.FORCED UPS
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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.

Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by adafruit on Mon May 19, 2014 11:31 pm

egutting wrote:What are you doing for repeat customers? Someone who bought the kit, but then wants to work on another project. Say they have their arduino and made their first project of some kind of blinking lights or whatnot and now want to create a remote control for their TV. They need the parts I described and nothing more. Who knows what they need next, but you're telling me you would direct them to somewhere else to purchase the parts instead of "inviting" them back to be a repeat customer. What if they find a competitor that will provide the items at a reasonable rate and decide not to come back? What is the LTV of these customers? Can you afford to lose these customers? (These last 2 questions are rhetorical. Please don't think I'm actually requesting your business financials.)


good questions, right now most of our revenue comes from repeat customers - they rely on our service, support, fast shipping and reliability. if someone can do a better job we'll need to adapt or we'll lose those customers. usually when a customer makes their first project(s) - the series of orders get larger, not smaller because of all the things they want to make and build, perhaps this is unique to adafruit - however, we adapt to what customers are doing and this is what most are doing (and one of the big reasons we added a free shipping option at $200, there were enough orders of that size, from returning customers to make that a great option).

we'll always be updating and adapting, the decisions we make are data driven, watched, measured and acted upon based on the results, stay tuned and thanks for feedback!

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by normank on Tue May 20, 2014 12:19 am

ADAFRUIT provided the wrong information (improper research)

Text of E-mail from Adafruit on Fri 3/28/2014 11:15 PM: NOTE: East coast/West coast time difference
hi Norman,
thanks for the note, your order will be shipping out today (Saturday). thank you for your patience and support.
thanks,
adafruit support. phil

From Accounts/orders: NOTE: East coast/West coast time difference It was still the 26th here.
03/27/2014 Order Number: 464926 Tracking Number: 9400110200881134210267 $85.16

Tracking information: Reverse order note sure of time zones
April 4, 2014 , 8:19 am Out for Delivery LAS VEGAS, NV 89121
April 4, 2014 , 8:09 am Sorting Complete LAS VEGAS, NV 89121
April 4, 2014 , 4:19 am Arrival at Post Office LAS VEGAS, NV 89121
April 3, 2014 , 5:18 pm Processed through USPS Sort Facility LAS VEGAS, NV 89120
April 1, 2014 , 12:13 am Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility NEW YORK, NY 10199
March 31, 2014 , 11:40 pm Depart USPS Sort Facility NEW YORK, NY 10199
March 31, 2014 , 10:35 pm Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility NEW YORK, NY 10199
March 31, 2014 , 9:20 pm Accepted at USPS Origin Sort Facility NEW YORK, NY 10013
March 29, 2014 Electronic Shipping Info Received
normank
 

Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by franklin97355 on Tue May 20, 2014 1:22 am

They need the parts I described and nothing more. Who knows what they need next, but you're telling me you would direct them to somewhere else to purchase the parts instead of "inviting" them back to be a repeat customer. What if they find a competitor that will provide the items at a reasonable rate and decide not to come back?
egutting, I can't speak for Adafruit but from what I've experienced and seen they would be happy for you if you could get the parts you need cheaper and faster from another distributor. They provide small parts as a courtesy to their customers but have said many times that you can get better deals from the major players. I buy my resistors, caps, transistors and such from DigiKey or Mouser depending on who has what I need at the time.

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by normank on Tue May 20, 2014 1:31 am

ADAfruit request shipping from other vendors - this is for a Bealebone black Rev C. only to my location.
Method
Name Tracked Insured Price
United States Postal Service
USPS EXPRESS Yes Yes $25.23
USPS PRIORITY Yes YES $7.54
USPS First Class Mail No No $4.59
Federal Express
FedEx Priority Overnight Yes Yes $23.80
FedEx Standard Overnight Yes Yes $22.08
FedEx 2-day Air Yes Yes $15.34
FedEx Express Saver Yes Yes $15.17
FedEx Home Yes Yes $12.27
United Parcel Service
UPS Ground Yes Yes $11.78
UPS Next Day Air Yes Yes $23.28
UPS Next Day Saver Yes Yes $21.47
UPS 2nd Day Air Yes Yes $15.09
UPS 3 Day Air Yes Yes $13.99
Economy [what's this?]
Economy Light Yes No $5.80
normank
 

Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by adafruit on Tue May 20, 2014 7:40 am

we believe that vendor does not have beaglebone black rev c in stock until june and we believe our UPS ground is lower cost when compared to the same item/distance. we would not suggest purchasing a beaglebone black rev 3 and using uninsured first class or uninsured "economy" as a shipping method (delays, not insured, etc. they are not responsible for replacing the package should it be lost in transit / it will show tracking online only up to the point the package is handed off to USPS).

compare UPS to UPS see which rate is lower, also compare the other UPS methods and let us know if ours is lower. since they're not in NY, we're assuming CO, please take that in to consideration, it's geographically closer. if it's a better deal and waiting to june or later is ok, that might be the way to go :)

previously you had emailed us on:
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 1:46 AM

we replied almost instantly, less than 30 minutes later:
Date: Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 2:15 AM

it was regarding the order using USPS placed on 3/27 at 12:30am, it shipped 1-2 business days later (3/29) the first USPS pick up was monday 3/31 (the 29th and 30th were saturday and sunday). if the shipping method was UPS, it would have gone out on 3/28 (within 24 hours or less). UPS has a reliable, consistent pick up and delivery schedule, USPS does not. this is why we indicate "1 to 2 business days" for USPS.

your new order placed today at 3:08am, will be shipped within a few hours and it will go out today, that's same day shipping within hours, thanks for the orders and giving us the opportunity to show our fast shipping and customer service.

thank you,
adafruit support

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by normank on Tue May 20, 2014 10:16 am

Other Vendor did not have a PiTFT and other vendors that I have done business with don't carry it. I seems as if it is an Adafruit product that I needed right now as one of the other two that I own is now toast. I did check before I placed the order with you. I "should" be getting my second BeagleBone Black rev C on Wednesday (order placed 5/14 with UPS ground costing $7.71). The third will have to wait until June, just about when I should be ready for it {I will use USPS first class). Of course the order coming from you is going to be left in front of my door sometime during the day. USPS does process on Saturday while UPS normally does not. If I had picked UPS ground on the 3/27 order if would have never left New York until the 3/31 and would have probably arrived on 4/7.. It also might be something "west of the Mississippi" but I am getting tracking numbers for first class packages. What you are saying is that you have entered into a contract with UPS for lower rates - where you are forced to there services. It had nothing to do with your customer base (as they pay postage) but rather a business decision on your part probably for shipments to your distributors. I am aware how these shipping contracts go. I hope you enjoyed your dinner from UPS, we only got donuts, that is until the Government changed to rules again. At GSA USPS came twice a day, UPS once a day, FEDex once a day , State Department one a day, other trackers on call. Our problem was incoming tracks we only had 8 loading docks, and tandum tracks were a hassle. Being 70 year old I have a lot of experience, also retired military (got into computers in 1969, building my own in the mid 1970s and still haven't stopped. Time for my Nap.
normank
 

Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by adafruit on Tue May 20, 2014 10:25 am

normank wrote:Other Vendor did not have a PiTFT and other vendors that I have done business with don't carry it.


if you ask them to carry a specific product that would help us out a lot, the "other vendor" for example is stocking more and more of our products, if you can suggest the PiTFT that would be great, we'd love to see them there with our other popular products.

normank wrote:I "should" be getting my second BeagleBone Black rev C on Wednesday (order placed 5/14 with UPS ground costing $7.71).


thanks, as per your post the other vendor's UPS ground cost is: UPS Ground: $11.78 and they're closer to you, this means our rates are much lower (over $4.00 lower!) thanks for including that! our UPS ground is only a few cents more than priority mail from the same list of fees you posted, that's even more good news.

normank wrote:What you are saying is that you have entered into a contract with UPS for lower rates - where you are forced to there services. It had nothing to do with your customer base (as they pay postage) but rather a business decision on your part probably for shipments to your distributors. I am aware how these shipping contracts go.


we do have shipping agreements with all the carriers (UPS, endicia/USPS, fedex, DHL and others). we can use any carrier we choose, there is not "exclusive" for a carrier and we would not agree to any contract that required that, ever! we did not get a dinner from UPS (we did get a UPS toy truck from one of the drivers as a gift once and we used it for the photo here - https://www.adafruit.com/free, fedex has sent chocolate and we ate it. we offer USPS to many locations but not all locations based on data, speed, delivery, etc. we may add it back to some locations, add other carriers, we'll do this based on speed, service and cost. there are some locations where we do not offer UPS too.

thanks again for the orders, feedback and the opportunity to show our great rates and service.

lastly, your latest order, from today, shipped already within a few hours:
Processing 2014-05-20 03:08:02
Shipped by Angel at 2014-05-20 11:43:40

Scheduled Delivery:
Thursday, 05/22/2014, By End of Day (2 business days from today)

thanks,
adafruit support

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by egutting on Tue May 20, 2014 11:15 am

franklin97355 wrote:egutting, I can't speak for Adafruit but from what I've experienced and seen they would be happy for you if you could get the parts you need cheaper and faster from another distributor. They provide small parts as a courtesy to their customers but have said many times that you can get better deals from the major players. I buy my resistors, caps, transistors and such from DigiKey or Mouser depending on who has what I need at the time.


franklin97355, I'm not talking about resistors, caps, transistors and such as I get these parts elsewhere as well. The two parts I called out, as a somewhat beginner, I would be worried that I wouldn't be getting the right part from somewhere else. I rely on Adafruit to tell me what I need. I've also tried to buy other parts from other companies, like the MCP3008 that is used as an ADC for Pi. I looked into purchasing that somewhere else and there are several varieties (which I eventually found the right one) and the shipping charges were really pricey there too. I came back to Adafruit to buy these because I didn't have to worry about selecting the wrong one. This was worth the dollar difference to me (back when they used USPS for shipping). Now the problem is I'm having a hard time justifying the extra $4 or $5 because of shipping.

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by dusty__2000 on Tue May 20, 2014 6:30 pm

I just want to add my voice to the discussion. It seems like your business was built on the sale of small, low cost kits and components. It's your choice, of course, but I was about to order a ~$20 wifi adapter but would have had to pay ~$10 in shipping. That's a no-go. I'll have to find it elsewhere. I consider that a shame, since I do appreciate adafruit's contributions to the maker community. I'm willing to assume the risk of unreliable shipping if it's clearly spelled out, but I'm not willing to pay a 50% shipping overhead.

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Re: USPS not an option.FORCED UPS

by adafruit on Tue May 20, 2014 7:09 pm

Dusty__2000 wrote:I just want to add my voice to the discussion. It seems like your business was built on the sale of small, low cost kits and components. It's your choice, of course, but I was about to order a ~$20 wifi adapter but would have had to pay ~$10 in shipping. That's a no-go. I'll have to find it elsewhere. I consider that a shame, since I do appreciate adafruit's contributions to the maker community. I'm willing to assume the risk of unreliable shipping if it's clearly spelled out, but I'm not willing to pay a 50% shipping overhead.


thanks for the kind words and support, the issue is no matter what we're ultimately responsible if a customer does not get their package. you sound very reasonable, however - with 20,000+ orders going around the world many people are not :) we will always need to find the most cost effective, reliable, fast service that helps the most customers. when you compare our rates vs other places we're much more economical when comparing the same service/distances (or better!). most customers do not just purchase 1 item so we've taken all the data from 500,000+ orders and come up with some great value and options depending on location.

all that said, as always - we will continue to adapt and add more options, thank you again!

cheers,
adafruit support

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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.