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x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by fudog on Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:38 pm

bcbox wrote:
P56 - Green Wire attached to Pad 10 (CN3) - no information on where that goes. What should I do here?

see page 65. There are two option s for pad 10 depending on how you want VCO2 CV inptu set up.




i'm using v2 of the manual, it says this on page 59 "Connect a 4” piece of green wire to pad 10."

Iva had a look through the whole manual, even used a search on the PDF, there is no more mention of this wire in the v2 manual.

just looked at p65 as per this reply - but nothing there either.
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by fudog on Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:15 am

hi can anyone tell me where the wire from Pad 10 goes? :?:

cheers
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by ntzemiro on Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:14 pm

Hey,

Just finished connecting everything and did the initial round of voltage tests as described in the manual. All passed. Got to the part with the audio probe and I'm not getting anything on either VCO. Complete silence. Noise generator works. And when I try to play a pattern, all the LED's (including x0xi0 specific ones) appear to be working. Mix Out and Headphone Out are also naturally spitting out silence.

I'm gonna poke around and check voltages. Was wondering though if my search area is narrowed down at all based on the above description.

Any help is more than appreciated.

Thanks,

-S
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by fudog on Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:05 pm

As I dont think I need the option to separately control vco 2 with another cv input its as siimple as connecting 10 to 13.

ahh easy... so close but so far. lol
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by ntzemiro on Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:00 am

So I tested the oscillators and they make sound every once in a while like there is bad contact. Would this be an issue with IC12 having bad contact or something else?
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:38 am

As I dont think I need the option to separately control vco 2 with another cv input its as siimple as connecting 10 to 13.

the VCO2 CV Options step was missing from the new install manual, page 69. I added it today, sorry for the confusion.

So I tested the oscillators and they make sound every once in a while like there is bad contact. Would this be an issue with IC12 having bad contact or something else?


1. Do you get anything pre-volume controls, at Pin 3 of VR405 & VR406 (Section 10 Step 5 & 6)?
2. What happens if select different waveforms for each, still none, intermittent?
3. If still nothing/intermittent it must be something common to both VCO's
a) supply voltage: unlikely since they both hook up to suplpy voltages from different places.
b) VCO Tune: unlikely since VCO1 is hardwired to the tune control via a trace on the mainboard.
c) CV Input: Also not likely since VCO1 Cv in is also hardwired via a trace on the mainboard.
d) If you're checking the VCO summed output at Pad T then there could be a bad connection there.
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by ntzemiro on Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:55 pm

Same result for switching waveforms on both oscillators. I'm only getting the intermittent sound at vr405 and 406. Headphone and Mix Out are mostly silent with the occasional quiet pop. Pin 3 or both vr405 and vr406 is stagnant at about 10.85ish volts.
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by crx091081gb on Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:39 am

When I turn the VCOs and the master volume down and leave gate mode off (toggle down) I get some audible clicking. I hadn't noticed it because I just left gate mode on and play it with the cv inputs. My kit numbers are 47/48 (front and back) can I request the mixer pcb to see if this improves it? While I'm opening her up to fit I'd quite like to fit the extra turn tuning pots so if you could bill me for those too, oh and if you could send me two more black front hex screws I'd be happy to pay for them, I lost some somewhere and had to replace them with the metal ones from x0xb0x mk1!

More worryingly I've noticed with both VCOs turned down and the master volume turned up I get some VCO bleed through, it sounds like a highly distorted version of what both VCOs are putting out. Plugging a jack into the VCF or VCA inputs doesn't make any difference to it so it likely comes after that but before the mater volume stage...?

Reading this whole thread through I noticed lord.bix had a bleed through problem that you thought might be remedied by modding the vcf out not to be a switched output as this reduces capacitive coupling and that this was now standard installation procedure. As my vcf output is switched (the mixer output drops when I plug a jack in to the vcf out) I'm guessing/hoping this might be it. Should I proceed with your advice to lordbix on page 1?

bcbox wrote:1. Remove R344 on x0xi0 I/O board. Leave location empty.
2. Replace R345 on x0xi0 I/O board with a resistor value between 100k and 220k.
3. Replace R121 on x0xb0x mainboard with 220k (back to original value).
4. Replace R122 on x0xb0x mainboard with 100k (back to original value).
5. jumper the connection between R121/R122 and IC15 (this trace was cut as part of original x0xi0 install).
6. Connect pad K on x0xi0 I/O board to anywhere on the junction of C21/VR4.

This changes the VCA In arrangement so that the VCF signal does not loop back through the VCF Out jack before going to the VCA Input. This eliminates the potential of capacitive coupled noise coming into the VCA input. The difference with this setup is that the VCF Out jack no longer acts as a switched jack, so when you take the VCF Out signal the signal is not openend between the VCF and VCA so the x0x signal goes to the VCF Out jack and straight to the VCA.
I have started to built x0xi0 kits with this arrangement to decrease noise. I am going to be udating the install manuals to follow this new procedure.



Just out of interest how much noise, bleed, click, should we experience with the VCO levels turned all the way down?

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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:09 pm

When I turn the VCOs and the master volume down and leave gate mode off (toggle down) I get some audible clicking. I hadn't noticed it because I just left gate mode on and play it with the cv inputs. My kit numbers are 47/48 (front and back) can I request the mixer pcb to see if this improves it?

yes, the mixer pcb kit eliminates it.
check out the support page, at the bottom, there audio samples of what the various clicking sounds like with and without the mixer pcb kit:
http://alphazone1.com/x0xi0/support/

oh and if you could send me two more black front hex screws

yes of course I can send a new set.

More worryingly I've noticed with both VCOs turned down and the master volume turned up I get some VCO bleed through

yes, this is most definitely coming in at the VCA from the VCA In circuit.
If you check out the new install manual revision 2 you can see the VCF Out & VCA In connections have changed. It improves the noise but in many cases still doesn't eliminate it. Some people have chosen to not connect the VCA In jack to eliminate this problem (it is detailed in the new install manual).
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:10 pm

ntzemiro, did you get any further with this?
Is i still intermittent or simply doesn't work all the time now?
First thing recheck the 5.33V/12V supply voltages (J4 etc...)
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by crx091081gb on Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:12 am

Thanks for the speedy reply Brian. I'm going to go through the latest full kit install manual tonight and check *everything* sigh...

Another worrying development has occurred in envelope 2, when I set the alt trigger to middle mode (manual only I think) and press the trigger button the vcf is affected even with the depth turned all the way down. It's holding envelope one open, is this normal? Also when I set envelope 2 to affect vco and set the depth to high it sometimes causes the output to go quiet.

I thought this unit was all sorted but it's started to behave weirdly recently, perhaps I knocked something when I opened her up last and I'm getting a short.

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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by crx091081gb on Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:14 pm

OK I think I changing the VCF and VCA setup has helped.

Two questions, when I set TM404 to give the same pitch across the full range of slide times I can fix it one for one note but when I try another an octave or two away I get a slight difference in pitch. Is this normal?

The other question is about env2, is it normal for an increase in the depth of vcf/vco to affect the vcf (pushes it down) or the pitch (goes up until turned to mid depth then back down close to again original pitch at full depth) without the envelope actually being triggered?

I guess it's just adding the untriggered low voltage?

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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by ntzemiro on Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:45 pm

I checked some solder joints in the VCO circuit and now VCO2 works just fine on both waveforms. VCO1 sputters on saw, cutting out every once in a while, and works for several seconds on square before going silent. Still getting nothing on either headphone or mix out. Sorry for the delay on the reply, I was on vacation for a few days.
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:47 pm

Another worrying development has occurred in envelope 2, when I set the alt trigger to middle mode (manual only I think) and press the trigger button the vcf is affected even with the depth turned all the way down. It's holding envelope one open, is this normal?

not sure about this, trying to picture it, I'll check later tonight.

Also when I set envelope 2 to affect vco and set the depth to high it sometimes causes the output to go quiet.

yes, this is normal. I left for an extreme amount of modulation that if you have VCO2 tuned really high then you crank up the ENV2-to-VCO knob it kicks it out of range until you lower the VCO2 tune control back to a lower setting. I believe there's a note about this in the crappy preliminary users manual.

Two questions, when I set TM404 to give the same pitch across the full range of slide times I can fix it one for one note but when I try another an octave or two away I get a slight difference in pitch. Is this normal?

yes this can happen because the VCO width is not perfect. It should only be a few cents worst case but can happen. This is probably the most sensitive trim setting, you can get it perfect for one session and then the next section you may find the tune is off a few cents again throughout the range of the slide time control. Not nearly as bad as when it's uncompensated though.

is it normal for an increase in the depth of vcf/vco to affect the vcf (pushes it down)

yes! I'm glad that you're giving it a good workout and using it. These are all great questions. The ENV2-to-VCF circuit is setup similar to ENV MOD, where with increased amount (depth) the minimum cutoff freq is lowered. This gives it more range for corresponding higher modulation amount. It works very well this way. If you want the minimum cutoff frequency to stay the same when ENV2 is used simply increase the CUTOFF control to offset the cutoff frequency.

is it normal for an increase in the depth of the pitch (goes up until turned to mid depth then back down close to again original pitch at full depth) without the envelope actually being triggered?

yes. this one was unavoidable having to do with a design limitation. You can trim it so that the VCO frequencies are the same at the minimum setting. but as you increase the ENV2 to VCO DEPTH control the fundamental pitch will increase.
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Re: x0xi0 Full Kit - Install & Troubleshooting

by bcbox on Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:56 pm

I checked some solder joints in the VCO circuit and now VCO2 works just fine on both waveforms. VCO1 sputters on saw, cutting out every once in a while, and works for several seconds on square before going silent. Still getting nothing on either headphone or mix out. Sorry for the delay on the reply, I was on vacation for a few days.

no problems with the delay, I've got my own stuff going on here these days. They just laid off 63 of 78 product development & engineering staff at my day job! I'm one of 15 people lef tin the entire group, and it's a pretty big well known company. They moved banned to China.

Anyway, sounds like there still a bad wire or solder joint connection. If it's only one VCO now that helps a lot. It didn't really makes sense if both VCO's were intermittent unless the supply voltages were bad. Check the wires from the waveform switch on the mainboard to pad 2 and pad 3 on the x0xi0 top PCB, probably a bad connection here. Once you get VCO1 sqaured away follow the manual and continue testing as shown.. it goes in an orderly way, from VCO, to VCF, to VCA etc... so you can catch any problem along the way. Don't freak out that you don't have main out right away, you'll get there.
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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.