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BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod
Moderators: altitude, adafruit_support_bill, adafruit, phono, hamburgers

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:55 am

Hey guys nice that this thread is here as I am actually having a problem with this myself at the moment and I am not sure I can live with it, I ordered my box from x0xsh0p and I just think it clicks a bit too much for it to be musical without sounding like something is wrong with the sound somehow. The funny thing is that the x0xsh0p guy said he didn't hear anything strange about it so now I wonder if I have super hearing so I hear stuff he don't or if I am just stuck on the click and paranoid but I doubt it. Anyway I can send it back and I probably will but can this even be fixed or do I have to get a refund then if this is so hidden problems and random people get away from it and others don't?

Here are some clips I sent to him also that you can also listen to if you want, the pics are just random taken from the net and not my box, just wanted to make that clear.

https://youtu.be/LGEzdcFpwsU Square wave with click, don't expect any fancy acid here just some fast input notes to make a demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKbv-EV ... e=youtu.be Here it's played with it's Saw waveform with it's click.

And of course in the middle position the x0xsh0p guy said it's normal that it click and I can accept that but even then he kinda admitted that it should not click in it's Saw and Square position, what do you guys think you are the pro's with this clicking stuff.

Much appreciated the help since I don't know about this x0x much, I have a TT-303 also which I got pretty much at the same time and it has such a nice rubbery sound with no clicking I have noticed I actually thought the x0x was better but I am starting to doubt it now. I sure love the x0x otherwise, such a nice build and the sound is there but it's just ruined by that clicking. Like I said to him in the mail, there is no chance in hell that x0x could play on it's own on a dancefloor with loud speakers and people would not react to if something is wrong with the speakers or so. I mean I would react instantly to such a click and wonder if the Dj is messing up in the mixer.

Messiah
 
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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by faybiens on Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:29 am

Hi, can you published sounds but direct recorded?

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:40 am

Hey you talking to me right?

Well I don't have it connected like that at the moment, hmm I wonder how I could do that right now without that soundcard I need to hook up and such, this is recorded with a Zoom H1. You mean that it could sound different without clicks just recorded from line out into a soundcard?

I will see what I can do and what I have at hand to record it straight in.

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:24 am

Ok have done it, I guess it is a little less now but that is also because I couldn't get the x0x so hot into my soundcard before it went red and started clipping have to look into that deeper later, it's just so much going on now.

https://soundcloud.com/m3sslah/sets/x0xb0x-test-clicks The snappiness is still there though and it do take over at points for me, like artifacts that should not be there.

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:19 am

Faybiens you seem to be very well educated and into this and what I understand you hate clicking also, lol. But what do you think the problem is with my box? I don't know if I would notice it so much if it didn't feel out of sync, it goes beside the actual sound at times and maybe that is what makes it extra disturbing that it create a rythm on it's own. And especially since I browse youtube and found maybe 1-2 a bit clicky x0xb0xes but most are not clicky which make me even more annoyed that I have a clicky when most don't. Then I wonder if people just play their x0xes lower so the click never get's recorded as loud or they filter it out with a EQ or noise gate, but that would be weird.

So I guess I just happen to get a clicky box 1 out of 10 and I was the lucky winner, jippie!

Another question I got for you is it normal for the tempo pot to have some scratchy noise when turning? Because mine have and it's worse if I put my finger on the aluminimum case. It seem very touch sensitive overall but I have mostly noticed it from touching the tempo pot.

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:23 am

This is another clip I had made for the guy at x0xsh0p but this is through my monitors and recorded with a Zoom H1 earlier but this is still how others would hear it through speakers and I don't know for me it's just not something I hear so much on others recordings. I even had a friend over that took a listen and he is not into this music stuff at all and he heard it also and even more so with some reverb on. The only time it kinda disappear is when using a distortion or putting the cutoff above 50% but that is just because the frequency becomes high enough to cancel out the frequency of the clicks.

The clip is with the switches for Saw then the switch just on neutral between saw and square and then square I think towards the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwjgAu-3vM

I listen to a Willzyx also on youtube and I could notice some snapping there too but not nearly as loud as this and it felt more musical and into the sound than mine which sometimes feel out of sync, anyone could give some input here before I send it back?

I would really like to know if this can get fixed so it doesn't click anymore and if that will lessen the nice accent or make something else not as good in the overall sound on the synth? If that is the case I don't know if I want just a refund or have him fix it. I want to know what I get somehow if he do start messing with it, it's still just a box you buy for 1 sound pretty much and then it better do that sound good otherwise I can put the money into something else.

I am thankful for all help I can get with this.

Messiah
 
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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by antto on Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:35 pm

as far as i can tell, you have DC-offset before the VCA

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:52 am

And that is a malfunction in the build or just a finetune he can do?

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by antto on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:58 pm

it happens, but there is a mod to add an adjustment and neutralize it
you can read about it for example in the first half of this post here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16764&start=150#p202878
basically a trimpot with a resistor.. preferably a multi-turn trimpot..

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:22 pm

Ah nice so it is quite a common problem, but from what I read it's like a ghost thing sopmehow, some builds get it and some don't, seem very strange that it's so hard to pinpoint clicking. Thanks for the help there Antto I will return the unit tomorrow and I hope he can do something with it without messing up the overall 303 sound because that would be a disaster. I still want my x0xb0x of course so I hope it will work out and btw do that mod install effect the sound in a bad way like lowering something else also combined with the clicking?

Messiah
 
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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by antto on Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:36 pm

this is quite common.. both of my x0xb0xes have dc offset (and thus both have this mod), my korg ES-1 has DC offset on its audio input so the samples i've recorded also have such low-freq thump when they play.. it's especially nasty on high-hats and such, some audio cards also have it (so when you record the silence it's actually not exactly zero but some tiny positive or negative flat line with noise) ...

no, the dc-offset-adjust mod won't change anything else, it is just a way to fine-tune the offset so you can set it to neutral

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by faybiens on Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:28 pm

I think that the 0.47uF on terminal 1 of BA662 does a slop from 0 to this offset, instead of having it instantaneous, resulting to this click on every note. And that is the one you can hear when the wave selector is in the middle, if I am right.
I could kill the click that happened on every note on two xox I have.

The other mod (22uF and 10K) is to soften the attack and keep the initial release env time in order to soften (a lot) the click due to non reseting osc, this click is a more random one.
I wanted to get this one out as well, as there is no attack knob on the xox as on other synth

I tuned both mods to get these values, the tuning aim was to keep the release time to keep the staccato feeling of the tb line which is a must and to get rid of these clicks

I am sorry but I never tried on a BA6110 xox, maybe these mods could do the same job.
When I look to the schematics it could work

I have to say that I did these tests with logic by looking at the schematics and with my ears.
Like previously mentioned I did quite a lot of these small equivalent tunings on other analog synths, and always with the same method --> 'cleaning' capacitors at the right place, always been satisfied with that solution.

The first time it happened was on a Polivoks, I could hear the gate/trig click at each low passed bass I was playing.
You can not imagine how terrible is that, it is a extremely short pulse, a click in a ocean of bass, terrible, frustrating!
I have contacted the designer of this synth, just tried, his name is Vladimir, quite famous guy, and by surprised he answered me.
He told me to use a capacitor on the gate circuit to soften this, which I did and it is still perfectly working !
Since I used this method on 5 of my old synth, I noticed as well that I can due to proximity of the gate circuit or cables to the sound path, always with good results.

I would try this mod if you feel confortable with getting your hands in the machine.
Of course you can try the DC offset cancelation mod as well

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:50 am

I am absolutely not schooled in this soldering and changing electronics at all but I do have a friend that is really good with all kinds of electronics and soldering. So I need to buy something then what do I need would you mind linking everything? Thanks.

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by faybiens on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:12 am

You will need to show him the schematic I posted previously.
I have posted two, use the last revision.

The xox has to be opened, and the main board dismounted, I soldered the new components on the knob side, not on the component side.
I used a 22uF and a 0.47uF electrolytic capacitors and one 10k resistor, the 10K resistor is in parallel with the 22uF capacitor.

Your friend has to locate the components on which the new ones are soldered to.

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Re: BCbox's VCA "Click be Gone" Mod

by Messiah on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:44 am

Ok the unit goes back today anyway I ordered the shipping already since it's not really my problem to begin with but I will keep this in mind if it comes back and still have some click that I can tweak on my own, I appreciate the help.

Messiah
 
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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.