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n0nx0x2

by antto on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:24 am

n0nx0x2 - discussion

bug reports and comments and questions are welcome, videos of acid jams too
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by antto on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:34 am

as a first question, what do you think about supporting bigger EEPROMs?

it's possible to put chips with more than 4kB of memory (there are pin-compatible ones)
for example, 8kB
then the n0nx0x FW can use either the lower 4kB of that, or the upper 4kB (think of this as having multiple memory banks)
so, with just 8kB, you could use the lower bank for experiments/learning, while the upper bank for your precious patterns/tracks

respectively, if you put a 16kB chip - you'd have 4 such banks..
switching between those banks will be done from the settings, thus it will be possible to copy/paste patterns between them
the active memory bank will be saved on the internal eeprom, and reloaded on boot

is this idea worth it?
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by macmiata on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:04 pm

Houston, I got a update problem wit 2.09
08 goes a little less extreme (some leds light up after flashing)
I think I was running 2.06

I tried the midi with C6 way (I'm on a mac)


http://youtu.be/txGRgQdCCN4
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Re: n0nx0x2

by antto on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:27 pm

hi

from the video, i can tell that the flashing process gets interrupted very early
while flashing, the bootloader uses the 16 bank LEDs as a progress bar, to show how full the flash memory is (which is 256kB minus 8kB)

even on the very early versions of n0nx0x - the data size was enough to reach bank LED #3
now this last version is the biggest so far, and iirc it reaches LED #5 or so

in your video, it quickly goes interrupted while it's at #1 even, so there's something going wrong
i would guess it's the midi

what midi interface do you use, and what cable length

you could try using a shorter cable, and adding some delay between the sysex packets (some midi librarian apps let you configure that from the settings)
or try over USB with avrdude

so far we've found that some of those cheaper midi interfaces (usb-midi) have problems with sysex data in general
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by rv0 on Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:52 pm

is your board a 3.03 revision?

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Re: n0nx0x2

by macmiata on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:38 am

I use a firewire focusrite saffire pro 24. I guess it is not soo bad. today I tried another midi interface - same cable. My NI Audio8 Dj - that is USB. The udpate got a bit further. I kept on trying and after 3 times it succeeded. I updated to 2.05 and then to the 2.08
Ok
2.09 won't upload to the xox. When I turn the knob to bootload, only one led lights up and when I send the file, nothing happens. Will try with sorter cable, I hope the xox will work, I need it today.

EDIT

no, shorter cable doesn't make any difference. The xox doesn't respond when I send it 2.09
I expect it to run 2.08 now. Better then in a coma.
Last edited by macmiata on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: n0nx0x2

by antto on Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:58 am

so it's not very likely to be the midi interface then

even tho you've managed to put v2.05 and v2.08 - the connection is unreliable
the MIDI connection is in one direction only.. computer -> x0x, so there is no dialog between the devices, if a packet of data gets corrupted - the bootloader will know (because there is CRC on every packet) but it cannot tell the computer "hey, re-send this last packet please)

so if you manage to upload it with that same setup - it would be pure luck (a shorter cable might increase your chances)
but if i were you - i'd do it via the USB cable (with avrdude):
- install the FTDI "VCP" (USB-Serial) drivers
- install avrdude
- cd into the directory with the firwmare hex file
- use: avrdude -p atmega2561 -c stk500v2 -P /dev/ttyUSB0 -b 57600 -e -U flash:w:n0nx0x2.09.hex
you'll probably have to change the device port in that command, to match what your OS assigns to the x0x when you connect it
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by macmiata on Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:45 am

Thank you, I tried it but it makes my brain explode.

this blue text gets me in trouble - too complicated. So I just tried it MIDI style till it worked. After 10times, I got 2.09 on the xox. :D

I'm not sure avrdude is instaled I think it is now. I guess avrdude runs in terminal thing, cd is something I need to type there and then? - 'change port' - no idea how I know what to use. Anyway. I'm a capricorn, stubborn and I know - try it, retry it and retry it, Now it works via midi :)

- install avrdude
- cd into the directory with the firwmare hex file
- use: avrdude -p atmega2561 -c stk500v2 -P /dev/ttyUSB0 -b 57600 -e -U flash:w:n0nx0x2.09.hex
you'll probably have to change the device port in that command, to match what your OS assigns to the x0x when you connect it
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Re: n0nx0x2

by antto on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:56 am

yes, avrdude is a terminal app
i've never used mac/osx, but afaik it's similar to linux

so in linux, you check if you have avrdude by typing "avrdude" in a terminal .. if it doesn't look like you have it -> apt-get install avrdude (or some similar command)
then, when i said "cd" that's yet another terminal command "change directory"
if you have the hex file for example in /somewhere/deep/firmware.hex, then you should "cd" into that directory so that the file is in the local dir... type: cd /somewhere/deep/
and then when you run avrdude with that command - it will find the file "firmware.hex" since it's in the local dir

the port name for the virtual serial port has to be passed to avrdude, on windows, it can be "COM1", "COM2", "COM3" and so on
on linux it's "/dev/ttyUSB0", "/dev/ttyUSB1", "/dev/ttyUSB2" ...
on osx it's very similar to linux
but in all cases, you have to check it, because the OS and the driver decide how to name the port

on windows, you can find it by watching the device manager and then plugging the x0xb0x in - you'll then see the new device appear in the system, and you can check it's port name then
on linux and osx.. plug the x0x usb, and then try this: dmesg | grep -A 5 "new.*USB" ..it will hopefully print the name of the new device on screen
We are here too: irc.freenode.net >>> #x0xb0x
..:: c0nb0x v1.00 ::.. http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29282 (new control app - win/osx)
VCO Tuning: http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24759 (do it the EASY way)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by antto on Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:32 pm

here's how it looks on windows (the device port is COM3 in my case)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nCZ9to5Ouc

it freezes in the middle because it has written the whole firmware but avrdude then starts reading it back, to verify, and this takes half of the time..
the verification can be skipped by adding -V into the arguments (i do that when developing cuz i can't stand the waiting)

when you flash via midi sysex - there's no verification, but the data transmision itself is slower (due to the lower baudrate and only 4 bits out of each byte are used for the data)

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Re: n0nx0x2

by 3phase on Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:11 am

Hi, i ve a xox with the bigger cpu in the studio now..next to a real 303.. And there are some problems.. I ve just started..but sofar it syncs not properly with din sync from a kenton pro 2.. And this is one of the best din sync interfaces on the globe..a standard unit..and an os that cant cope with a kenton interface has at least a conceptional bug
It starts every time at a different point.. no precise start action. you need to start by hand and cant rely on the start comand of the daw.

Are there improvements with the most actual os version?

It does work with midi..

And in the manual its mentioned that the play and write mode are intended to be exactly llke in the 303..what is a great concept since no clone or new 303 os like the quicksilver get it really right and fall behind the real 303..
Would be nice IMO when the nonxox 2 actually would full fill this promise ..but maybe the plan has changed and exact behavior is not intended anymore? It hurts more on the quicksilver os that is intended to go into a real 303 as on the nonxox that is already more fun than any standard xox os.. But like it is now a few details are missing that make writing on a real 303 better and more rewarding..shall i mention this points?
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Re: n0nx0x2

by rv0 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:39 am

3phase wrote:sofar it syncs not properly with din sync from a kenton pro 2.. And this is one of the best din sync interfaces on the globe..a standard unit..and an os that cant cope with a kenton interface has at least a conceptional bug
It starts every time at a different point.. no precise start action. you need to start by hand and cant rely on the start comand of the daw.

Which version of n0nx0x2 are you running?
3phase wrote:Are there improvements with the most actual os version?

Depends, a lot of things changed recently which are related to sync (because of shuffle, ..)

3phase wrote:Would be nice IMO when the nonxox 2 actually would full fill this promise ..but maybe the plan has changed and exact behavior is not intended anymore? But like it is now a few details are missing that make writing on a real 303 better and more rewarding..shall i mention this points?


Please mention what is missing, if it's not missing for a specific reason, it can sure be added.
Thanks in advance for the feedback!

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Re: n0nx0x2

by 3phase on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:37 am

which version? no idea..is there a way to get that info from the user interface?
And is updating via midi working or is it better to get a windows machine running and use usb?
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Re: n0nx0x2

by rv0 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:13 am

3phase wrote:which version? no idea..is there a way to get that info from the user interface?
And is updating via midi working or is it better to get a windows machine running and use usb?


Updating via midi works perfectly. (disclaimer: above user mentions a problem with 2.09, so try 2.08 if it doesnt work for you, have not tested this as I'm running an unreleased beta atm)
If you want to use usb, you dont need Windows, as it uses an arduino based bootloader you can use avrdude to update it, works fine on my OSX.This is commandline stuff so not recommended, midi is easiest.
Info on http://antonsavov.net/cms/projects/n0nx ... l#fwupdate

As for knowing which version, don't think it's possible yet from the interface, this was a planned feature (low prio). You can see which version with c0nb0x (usb)
But, as you never updated it, I know which version you got, it was shipped at the end of January right before 2.07 release, so you have n0nx0x 2.06
Updating is advised, please do so before checking for any missing 303 features; chances are big they're already in there now.

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Re: n0nx0x2

by 3phase on Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:09 pm

ok.. i update and do a step by step comparison with my 303.. i really like the idea to have the basic pattern play and write identical.

However.. i dont think that it necessaryily needs to be 100% identical..could be advanced..but the original workflow should be 100% there,, but i am not anal about the 100% aslong its better and you dont miss anything. So everythig >= 100% is good But ok..its somehow nice that somebody that only knows a xoxbox with nonxox could start working on any real 303 without thinking twice..

anyway.. a few things that are not original 303 but could feel like an improvement would be..

1) while being in pitch write mode the back button could just do the going a step back when beeing pressed while the tap button is held.. this way you advance thru the sequence with the tap/next button..but can jump back when you accidently missed an edit .. that safes time and dont interfears with the original 303 conventions.. it appears rather as a bug on the real 303 since the back button just does nothing in pattern write mode.. probably it was originally intended to use it in such a way..

2) when writing pitches the non xox could accept the accent slide and transpose markers ..on the original 303 you need to do that in a second path..but when you know where you want the accent ..why not?

3) in realtime tap time writing only the tap button works..but maybe one could allow all keys plus the tap button to be used.. again a time safer. But probably too difficult, since the accent and slide info should stick to theire step number as on the real 303.. only the info of the button you use should be over written..
so for example.
you press 2 times tap.. the timing info is written.. but the pitch, accents and slide are taken from the already recorded first 2 steps..just as it is now..
but when you use than a pitch button for the next timing step instead the tap.. , the third step uses that timing info from the time the pitch button is pressed..and the pitch value of step 3 gets over written... accent and slide info of step 3 stay as already recorded...

complicated..especially since you need to deal with the timing interaction of tap and pitch key pressed simultanously.. so there needs to be a detection for that..but..the cool thing..you could tap with 2 hands.. and maybe automatical create slides when keeping the tap pressed and just playing the keys.. or just replacing every second pitch step with a new pitch by alternating between tap and pitch keys.. that would be fast writing.. ok.. not really necessary and would go way further than what a 303 can do.. but would still feel quite the same ..or..it would be the same aslong you just touch the tap button during the realtime write... i think that would be close enough to a real 303 functionality.. just a bit bad for nonxox users that touch the first time a real 303 than.. would feel a bit limited than *lol*
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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.