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Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested
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Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:02 pm

Hello.

I've installed dozens of these sound F/X sound boards in my Pedestrian horn project, so I'm very familiar with the product.

I usually use the 2GB version, but a customer wanted the 16GB version which I just received (PRODUCT ID: 2341).
After adding the header pins, I'm getting a dual green-and-red LED upon 5V power up.
I've never seen this happen before. I rechecked all the header pins for shorts or other problems and I don't see anything obvious.
Also, the device won't recognize being plugged into a PC (or Mac) USB port to upload sounds.

Thanks for your assistance.

There are two photos attached.. the first one with the 16GB Card and dual green-and-red LEDs lit, and the same PC board with a 2GB module installed that works.

16GB Sound F/X card

IMG_9259.jpg
16GB Sound F/X board (does not work)
IMG_9259.jpg (124.83 KiB) Viewed 351 times


2GB Sound F/X card
IMG_9260.jpg
2GB Sound F/X board (works)
IMG_9260.jpg (114.9 KiB) Viewed 351 times

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by adafruit_support_carter on Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:20 am

Also, the device won't recognize being plugged into a PC (or Mac) USB port to upload sounds.

Do the PC's respond at all? Sounds like maybe you're not seeing the folder show up, but just wondering if the PC even makes the "something attached" noise?

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:22 pm

On both Mac and PC it's recognized, but the USB drive is not readable and it asks to format/initialize it.

On Windows the device is just "USB Drive".

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by adafruit_support_carter on Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:26 am

That's at least hopeful. It's seeing something.

After adding the header pins, I'm getting a dual green-and-red LED upon 5V power up.

You say this happened "after" adding the header pins? Did you test the board before that?

Can the sound FX board be removed from the PCB easily?

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:55 pm

I’m not sure how to test the board before adding header pins.. never occurred to me to do that before since they all just worked. I’ve bought and installed at least 20 of these.

The cards have header pins and the PCB is fully socketed, so all components are removable.

The images in my first post shows two different FX cards installed on the same PCB.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:58 am

Just bumping for assistance. Thanks.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by adafruit_support_carter on Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:57 am

Oops. Sorry. Didn't see you other response for some reason.

There is maybe one more thing to try. See if reburning the disk image helps at all:
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-aud ... /downloads

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:06 pm

Ok, some progress here. I was able to reburn the bootloader, and the unit is now properly recognized as ADAFRUIT when USB connected to a computer, and I can upload files.

When I put it into my PCB, it only works about 10% of the time. Meaning, 90% of the time I power it up, I get the solid RED+GREEN LEDs and the unit is non-responsive.

The one-in-ten times I power it up, it powers up normally and works as expected, although it's pretty random when it works or doesn't. I've tried both USB power, a +5V power supply, and a 5v battery pack as a power source, so I know it's not a dirty power line.

I found that if I power it up (and it fails at power up) and I quickly toggle the power, the second time it will power up properly. Other than that, there's no pattern to when it powers up in fail mode or working mode. So there's something wrong with the power up circuit or sequence.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:37 pm

Ok, more progress, but I'm still not sure what the problem is. This will be a little long.

First, my EV-HORN project is exactly the same design and implementation that Phillip Burgess posted here: https://learn.adafruit.com/audio-fx-rem ... rol/wiring. The only difference is that I'm using two 4-channel RF boards to have a total of eight channels. Everything else is identical to his design (thanks, Phillip!).

I'm uploading two photos for reference.

The first is a clear shot of my PCB. One 16GB F/X board in the middle, two hex inverters, two 0.1 uf decoupling caps, and two 433mhz remote boards. The right side inverter (#1) is used for channels 1-4 from the RF board on the right, and the left side inverter (#2) is used for channels 5-8 from the RF board on the left.

My first step was to take the F/X board off my PCB back onto breadboard, and it worked by itself 100% of the time.

Then I went back to the PCB and through many iterations, I found that if I removed inverter #2 , the F/X board would boot up fine almost every time (but not all). I tried several different chips, and as long as there was a chip in inverter slot #2, the F/X board would fail to boot up more than 50% of the time. Ok, so there's a problem my my PCB.

So I go and build another PCB from scratch, transfer all the parts, and bam, the EXACT same problem occurs. If there's an inverter #2 installed for channels 5-8, the F/X board won't boot about 50% of the time. Again, tried several chips and the same thing.

Interestingly, if I do the opposite, and remove inverter #1 and only have inverter #2 installed, the board fails to boot 99% of the time. So here's the summary (the percentages are estimates)

Both inverters: boot fails 50%
Only Inverter #1: boot fails 5%.
Only Inverter #2: boot fails 95%

So I'm starting to think there's a problem with my PCB or design. But I've NEVER seen this happen with the 2GB F/x board. So either there's a design problem, or there's something wrong with the powerup circuit on this particular board. So I realized I still had my original prototype board from which I designed the PCB, so I pulled it out of my desk, popped on the parts (it already had two inverters installed), and the EXACT same thing happens. (see photo #2). With both inverters installed, the F/X board fails to boot about 50% of the time. So that makes three different boards that exhibit the same problem.

So maybe the 16GB board is more sensitive to other power draws that the 2GB board is immune to? I don't know, that's above my pay grade. Maybe the 16GB board is malfunctioning? Maybe it's a problem with my design, but I can't figure out what that could be, it's really very simple. I just know that the 2GB F/X boards always work, and this one 16GB board does not.

pcb1 (Small).png
PCB board full view
pcb1 (Small).png (575.05 KiB) Viewed 171 times


pcb2 (Small).png
Original prototype board (the second inveter is under the F/X board)
pcb2 (Small).png (528.75 KiB) Viewed 171 times

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:27 am

I was thinking more about this last night, and it's just a wide-ass-guess, because I don't know how the F/X board was designed. You folks would know this for sure.

But under most use cases for the F/X board, where there is a momentary switch to ground each trigger pin, the trigger pins themselves are floating but at a high TTL, no? They trigger when shorted to ground.

But in Phillip's design (and my design doubling his inputs), all 8 trigger pins are forced high TTL due to the hex inverter, whose inputs are all normally low. When the RF board triggers go high, the inverter, well, inverts them to low to the F/X board to play the sounds.

So is the 16GB board more sensitive to having all 8 pins forced high from the hex inverters? Or more specifically, pins 5-8, since pins 1-4 seem to work fine? This never happens on the 2GB board. I think you might be able to test this out yourself at the shop and see if you get the same results. But I think maybe this has never popped up before because most people just use switches on trigger pins and not two hex inverters.

That's my theory, anyway.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by adafruit_support_carter on Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:03 pm

See sec 6.2 of datasheet:
https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/vs1000.pdf
May have something to do with transient behavior on pin GPIO0_7 post-reset. Not sure. But you are connecting to that pin with your setup, where the other Learn guide does not. So that is one difference. And it sounds like the Sound FX board works OK in isolation. So it must be something specific to your setup.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:28 pm

So then why does it work on the 2GB F/X board? Both boards have the VS1000 chip.

Doesn't it seem like a design flaw to use GPIO0_7 as a regular trigger pin when using a hex inverter as described in Phillip Burgess's tutorial?

So it appears that the VS1000 is trying to run on 1.8v due to the hex inverter going high on that pin on startup?

Yes, this is something specific with my setup, but two questions:

1. Why does it not happen with the 2GB version and
2. There's nothing on the product or tutorial or FAQ pages that say "Do not set TRIGGER PIN 6 high, as that puts the VS1000 into 1,8v mode and the board won't start up".

So what you're saying is that due to your design oversight, the 16GB board is incompatible with my design, which is exactly the design you publish on your tutorial site?

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:49 pm

Since the 16GB version won't work with the same design as your tutorial, I would like to request an RMA or refund for this board since it's unusable in that design.

Thanks.

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by adafruit_support_carter on Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:09 pm

Our return policy only covers unopened items within 30 days:
https://www.adafruit.com/shippinginfo

There's a lot of deviation going on here relative to what is shown in the guide.

Is there a chance this could be related to soldering? The currently not working 16G board looks like it has several under-soldered pins:
sndfx_16g_nowork.jpg
sndfx_16g_nowork.jpg (48.19 KiB) Viewed 101 times

The working 2G version also has some under-soldered pins:
sndfx_2g_work.jpg
sndfx_2g_work.jpg (38.69 KiB) Viewed 101 times

but different ones.

Try reflowing the pins and see if it helps.
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-gui ... n-problems

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Re: Sound F/X board solid red LED, help requested

by HankLloydRight on Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:26 pm

Our return policy only covers unopened items within 30 days:
https://www.adafruit.com/shippinginfo


Yes, I ordered this unit on September 8th,and started this thread on September 12th. 30 days would still end tomorrow.

The only difference in the pins is the "CS" pin which isn't used or connected to anything on the circuit board. The other pins, BUS, TX, RX, and UG also aren't used in the circuit, there are pins soldered there only to securely mount the card in the header.

The only pins that are used are: VIN,GND, and pins 0 through 7.

I have tried re-flowing all the pins already (that was the first thing I tried).

I've already demonstrated that there is a design flaw with GPIO0_7 being set high on boot up that doesn't affect the 2GB version. I've also demonstrated that the unit works perfectly when only using pins 0-3 and fails when using all pins 0-7.

How many more weeks are we going to go back and forth on this? Can't I just return or refund this $20 board already?

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