Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect on R3

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

I just resoldered all the joints to check it's not cold joints... although the fact that the UNO won't power on when the shields attached suggests something else I guess.

The solder on the back of the 5V and ground must of been from an older project - nothing else was attached to the shield apart from the speakers when I used the external power source... None of the components look damaged on the shield, but I don' know enough to work out what would cause it to halt the UNO from even starting (the Uno won't even display it's green LED power light when the shield is attached...)

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

Check around the 2x3 pin ICSP header on the end of the board. There is a lot of stuff in and around the pins. It may just be flux residue, but make sure that there are no short circuits there.

If you have a multimeter, measure the resistance between GND and 5v. And also between GND and VIN.

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

So for the GND and 5v pin, with the DMM set to 2KOhms I get a reading of 823 (meaning 8230 Ohms?)
For the GND and Vin pin I get a 1 at all settings (presumably meaning it's not a circuit.)

I checked the ISP and cleaned it up a bit, I think it was just resin..

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diaphone
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by diaphone »

Do you have a digital multimeter that you can do basic resistance and continuity checks with? It looks like you soldered this board with and iron that was not hot enough or not contacting both pin and pad adequately. Many of the joints are as Bill says, cold (solder blobbed on the pin but didn't join to the pad).

I ask about the DMM because of what's going on here:
solder.png
solder.png (961.37 KiB) Viewed 190 times
You've got a blob of solder in a through hole, and it's part of a +5V trace. It looks like there may be a tiny bit of solder there where I circled that is bridging to the adjacent ground plane. It's impossible for me to tell what's solder and what's specular highlights off of flux residue, or what's actually touching vs insulated by intact solder mask, but what I would do here is just see if you have continuity between that 5V pin and the ground pin next to it. If you get a beep, there's a short somewhere, and it may or may not be right here. If it doesn't beep, check the resistance between these pins. I honestly don't know what to expect here, but it shouldn't be a low resistance value.

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

Hi thanks for looking at this - see my last post where I checked the resistance - does that value seem reasonable? I went round and resoldered the joints and cleaned up anything that looked suspicious...

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diaphone
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by diaphone »

sbrown22 wrote:Hi thanks for looking at this - see my last post where I checked the resistance - does that value seem reasonable? I went round and resoldered the joints and cleaned up anything that looked suspicious...
Oops, sorry about the duplicate advice. When I clicked the email this morning, it brought me to page 1 of this thread, your photo post, and I didn't even notice there was a page 2 until after I replied. My bad. I don't have one of these shields to know what the expected resistance is between 5V and GND, but neither 832 ohms nor 823k (whichever your meter is telling you) is a short. Vin and 3V pins are pass-thrus, not connected on this shield, just there for if there's another shield stacked on top that uses them.

Since you've already been brave enough to try this shield on the Arduino again, and it's not killing the Arduino, you could try it briefly again and see what voltage is on the 5V pin. There's still possibility of a short that only happens once something on the shield is enabled. If the shield shorts, the 5V rail will drop. You could also try just wiring the shield to 5V and GND and seeing if the Arduino boots, to see if it's one of the many other pins whose path to ground and/or power is causing the Arduino to not boot.

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

Progress!!

Ok, so the shield and UNO work (plays music via headphone out) if I power everything via Vin and GND on the shield (5V from a wall charger)... And to recap, the UNO will not boot (no LED/nothing) if the shield and UNO are connected to the PC. So I am currently able to upload sketches to the UNO without the shield and then test them by powering externally through Vin and GND (whilst unplugged from the computer).

What does this suggest? I'm not sure of the relationship to the USB power / Vin / 5V pin on the boards.. should I remove the 5V pin between the shield and the UNO and see if it then works when attached to the PC? Thanks!

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

There should be no direct connection between the VIN pin and any of the shield circuitry. All circuitry on the shield is powered via the 5v pin.

VIN only connects to the input side of the UNO's regulator. The output of that feeds the 5v pin.

When powered via USB, VIN and the UNO's regulator are not even in the picture. The 5v rail is powered directly via the USB VBUS pin. So the issue - whatever it is, it probably not related to your 12v supply.
Ok, so the shield and UNO work (plays music via headphone out) if I power everything via Vin and GND on the shield (5V from a wall charger)..
What happens if you power everything with your 5v supply via the 5v and GND pins on the shield?

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

Thanks for the responding. Ok, so I can confirm everything works when I put 5V into the shield 5V pin also. So: when the UNO and the Shield are powered from the UNO USB then the board won't even boot, but when they are powered from 5V to either Vin or 5V pin all works fine. Just to be clear, this a brand new UNO - not the one from the original tests - so I don't believe there is any error with the UNO.

Ok - so after this I then plugged the shield and the UNO back into the PC and it is all working... literally all I have done is solder 3 pins onto the shield Vin GND and 5V so that I can croc clip them to a supply. After that worked I then (out of curiousity) retested on the PC using the UNO USB port: the board works, the shield works. I posted photos above - I could not see any short between those 3 pins that maybe the resoldering removed.. I am a bit worried it won't be reliable (it's going to be used as a theatre prop on stage) - so if anyone has any possible explanations I'd love to hear them. Otherwise - thank you all enormously for your help!!

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The only think I can think of that would keep the UNO from booting when powered from USB would be a bad USB cable or a short circuit of some kind. The only thing between the UNO's USB jack and the 5v pin is a diode and a polyfuse. If the polyfuse tripped, it would reset itself, typically after just a few minutes.

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diaphone
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by diaphone »

Cleaning up your dodgy soldering seems like the most likely source of the fix. You had multiple cold joints and possible solder bridging. Apart from the fuse Bill mentions, nothing else on the board will self repair if burned out, so the fact that everything works down really only leaves your connections and possible issues with your power supplies.

FWIW, +5V from USB isn't always 5V either; it tries to be, but there are low and high-powered USB sockets, and also other load on the bus to consider. I sometimes plug an Arduino into the USB port in the back of my keyboard. This hub measures 4.91 V unloaded, 4.85 V with my mouse plugged in, and then 4.72 V if I add the Arduino to that. It can't power "high-powered" USB devices, and might not work with a shield with a big current draw, I've never tried.

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

Thanks again to everyone for helping with this one and my project is progressing nicely with the original shield seemingly working ok.

However, I've noticed that one chip on the shield (just by the speaker connects) is getting extremely hot and I wanted to check whether that was normal/ok/expected ... I'm powering everything through the UNO's USB connector, connected to my PC. I'm not even using the shield to do anything at the moment, I'm working on another bit of my project which is triggering some LED boards. I've highlighted the chip that is getting hot in the picture below. I was thinking of pasting a small aluminium spur to act as a heatsink to the chip - but I want to check that this isn't a malfunction due to the previous I had with the shield discussed earlier... thanks..
PXL_20220430_120212433.jpg
PXL_20220430_120212433.jpg (802.73 KiB) Viewed 153 times

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adafruit_support_bill
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The chip circled in your photo is the amplifier. It should not be getting very hot unless you are driving speakers at high sound levels. Heat-sinks are almost never never a bad idea.

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sbrown22
 
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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by sbrown22 »

Hmm so either I still have some dodgy soldering or when I damaged the board I affected something.

I'm only using line out, if I remove the amp chip will everything else continue you work? Is that a good idea?!

Thanks

Simon

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Re: Music Maker shield fried when using 12v barrel connect o

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

If you are not using the amp, removing the chip from the board should not cause any problems.

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