Completed kits on Etsy?

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brokenmod
 
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Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by brokenmod »

From reading several posts in this forum, finished Adafruit kits resold on Etsy or elsewhere appears permissible. But I have a few questions that I haven't found answers to, and I hope this is the right place to post them.

First, I got the idea to post on Etsy from friends who absolutely loved my completed MintyBoost kit. Several co-workers offered to buy it from me on the spot. My wife teaches in a local high school and uses it the most (her phone seems to have a terrible battery life). She showed it to students and teachers who also loved the device. My dilemma is ethics. Adafruit.com gloriously details instructions as well as each part used in kits and where to buy them. Buying a MintyBoost PCB from Adafruit.com and parts from, for example, Mouser allows me to create a MintyBoost with case for about $15.00. Selling these for $20 to $25 seems reasonable. But ethically, I feel like a douche for doing this. Somehow I don't feel the $5.00 MintyBoost PCB for each completed MintyBoost I'm reselling is enough compensation to adafruit in exchange for amazing research, tutorials, and links to wholesale-priced parts. Does this make sense, or is my brain not wired for OSHW concepts?

Second, how does liability play in both adafruit kits and completed resold kits? What, if anything, prevents someone from seeking damage costs by claiming a MintyBoost destroyed their phone or started a house fire? Are disclaimers, "use at your own risk" stickers, or other types of contracts necessary or effective? I suppose my concerns come from my job. I work for a nationwide service industry with millions of devout customers but there are a small percentage of customers that make damage claims, some of which are completely fabricated in attempt for a get-rich-quick settlement.

In essence, I love the kits and ideas on adafruit and I feel like I could effectively market them. I just worry that I'm screwing over the person who did all the labor to bring us these kits and not sure if legal disclaimers are necessary or worthwhile.

Thanks!

adafruit
 
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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by adafruit »

brokenmod wrote:Buying a MintyBoost PCB from Adafruit.com and parts from, for example, Mouser allows me to create a MintyBoost with case for about $15.00. Selling these for $20 to $25 seems reasonable. But ethically, I feel like a douche for doing this. Somehow I don't feel the $5.00 MintyBoost PCB for each completed MintyBoost I'm reselling is enough compensation to adafruit in exchange for amazing research, tutorials, and links to wholesale-priced parts. Does this make sense, or is my brain not wired for OSHW concepts?
this is fine, this is why we release OSH. you just need to be very clear that your assembled kits have nothing to do with us, we cannot support them at all.
brokenmod wrote:Second, how does liability play in both adafruit kits and completed resold kits? What, if anything, prevents someone from seeking damage costs by claiming a MintyBoost destroyed their phone or started a house fire? Are disclaimers, "use at your own risk" stickers, or other types of contracts necessary or effective? I suppose my concerns come from my job. I work for a nationwide service industry with millions of devout customers but there are a small percentage of customers that make damage claims, some of which are completely fabricated in attempt for a get-rich-quick settlement.
we cannot give you legal advice. if you're selling something you need to decide what is right for you.

-adafruit

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chatham
 
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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by chatham »

One other thing to be aware of is FCC licensing. I don't think this is an issue with the MintyBoost, but if anything you sell as a completed consumer product has a microcontroller in it, or any chip running at over 1.705 MHz, there's a good chance that you're going to need some sort of FCC testing done on it to legally sell it in the US. Basically, you'll need to make sure that the device doesn't create radio interference, but you'll need to get that tested at an accredited lab, and that seems to start at about $1000. For more information, search around FCC Chapter 15.

Canada, the EU, and Japan also have their own regulations, with the EU seeming to be the most complicated since the CE mark you need covers a host of things, including Reduction of Hazardous Substances sourcing and other emissions testing. So selling completed electronics gets even more complicated if you start getting in foreign orders.

Whether or not the FCC will care about a small-scale business is a different matter as well, but FCC fines can be pretty severe. Just something to be aware of if you start to look into making other kits. Hope it helps!

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brokenmod
 
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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by brokenmod »

I don't think this is an issue with the MintyBoost, but if anything you sell as a completed consumer product has a microcontroller in it, or any chip running at over 1.705 MHz, there's a good chance that you're going to need some sort of FCC testing done on it to legally sell it in the US. Basically, you'll need to make sure that the device doesn't create radio interference,
I'm not an expert on FCC part 15, but I do know it is specifying radio frequency devices. A microcontroller running at 20MHz is simply describing its clock speed. The ability to run instructions 20 million times per second has little to do with a HAM radio whose radio waves are broadcast in the 20MHz radio frequency spectrum. I could be wrong, though...

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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by adafruit_support_bill »

The ability to run instructions 20 million times per second has little to do with a HAM radio whose radio waves are broadcast in the 20MHz radio frequency spectrum.
If that 20 MHz frequency clock signal is emitted from the case and interferes with a radio, it is in violation of FCC rules. Most computers have to undergo EMI testing prior to sale and will have an FCC ID sticker on them somewhere.

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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by chatham »

arduwino wrote:If that 20 MHz frequency clock signal is emitted from the case and interferes with a radio, it is in violation of FCC rules. Most computers have to undergo EMI testing prior to sale and will have an FCC ID sticker on them somewhere.
One thing that I didn't know until I started asking around was that in addition to the signal from your crystal which is driving a small current down those wires at 20 Mhz or whatever, microcontrollers also actually draw their power in bursts on the clock edge, not as a constant function. Decoupling capacitors help, along with some other PCB layout stuff, but it can still be an issue. So rapidly switching currents on PCB traces turn into tiny antennas, potentially generating lots of electromagnetic noise (there's lots of issues with harmonic frequencies too). Apparently even pretty tiny currents are potentially , since the low-current exemption for devices is only for things that draw a minuscule 6 nanowatts or less. Also, things are a lot more strict for stuff that comes into a home vs. something that is used industrially or commercially (Class A vs. Class B), so consumer electronics are especially strict.

It's a complicated thing; some of the language is kinda vague. There are a couple of exemptions, but other than the "Nothing in the device makes or uses any signal faster than 1.705 MHz" one, they're of pretty limited help. The law is definitely more geared to big manufacturers rather than hobbyists, though, and the enforcement mechanism is complaint driven, so as long as stuff doesn't flagrantly mess with the other electronics in your home, nobody's probably even going to notice.

Disclaimer: I'm by no means an expert, or even a real engineer. I've just had to do some research to try and cover my own bases, but when it comes to selling electronics, it seems like FCC stuff is something you need to at least look into. If you think it might be applicable to you, read up on it.

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brokenmod
 
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Re: Completed kits on Etsy?

Post by brokenmod »

Alan / arduwino,

Thanks for the amazing advice! My mentor in my company is a lawyer and director of government affairs. Since we are in the RF business he's very familiar with FCC law. I'll get with him to bounce ideas off of and I'll post a reply if he has anything substantive to add. Thanks again - you guys rock!

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