Reflow oven T100C Moderators: adafruit_support_bill, adafruit

[freaklabs]

Thanks for the review. Will definitely look into that oven, but only after I move to a different place. This apartment complex unfortunately doesn't support 200V. Its a big pain in the ass when trying to do lead free reflow.

[bcunningham]

Can I ask what voltage you run your T200N on? Our power here runs about 242 Volts. I asked the manufacturer in China, and they tell me that this voltage will greatly shorten the life of the oven, and they don't recommend running it this way. I asked Mann Corp, and they seem to think it's fine to run it that way.

Based on your review, I would like to order one of the T200C ovens. I've looked into a transformer that would get the voltage down to around 220 Volts, but they get $600+ for a transformer. I'm really not wanting to spend the extra on the transformer.

Bruce

[gsattler]

Just stuck a multimeter in the wall, we are running the T200N here at the office on 213VAC. No problems so far. Looks like we finally have all the kinks worked out for stencil printing (manual), Pick & Place (MDC 7722FV Luna/Manncorp 7722FV) and reflow oven (Beijing Torch T200N) for the Analog Devices BF561 DSP daughterboard we've been struggling with. The BGA package reflow soldering process is a pain to figure out. I'd go with the manufacturer on this and not Manncorp, try to stay below 220VAC.

[blogger]

lol
our T962 just caught on fire, time to shop for a new oven
is the consensus that T200N is best around here?
Or should use T200C or SR500?
Price is (not really) an issue and gotta get it here by next week.

by the way how does nitrogen connect to T200N?
Quick-coupler? Or What.

[blogger]

good thing i didn't use this place to actually get advice, t200 has been here for 2 weeks and working great and

p.s. can [you] stop deleting my posts? (edited inappropriate language - moderator)
shouldn't you be doing something else besides deleting posts you find offensive on a forum frequented by maybe 2 people a week? thanks.

[adafruit]

p.s. can [you] stop deleting my posts? (edited inappropriate language - moderator)
shouldn't you be doing something else besides deleting posts you find offensive on a forum frequented by maybe 2 people a week? thanks.

hi blogger, we really appreciate your posts here - however, keep the inappropriate language off the site. frequency of use has nothing to do with being kind to each other :)

if you need to discuss this more with us, please email support@adafruit.com

cheers,
adafruit

[cecilio colindres]

Hola
It has been a long time since your post but I would like to know how you came out with the reflow oven from www.tonhz.com. I bought a F2C reflow oven from them 3 months ago and it has been a headach since the first day. After connecting the serial cable, I realized it was too short so I got a longer one, then when I unscrewed it to replace it for the longer one, the serial interface felt inside the oven case, because it had no bolts but rivets, then I had to make some special allen wrench to open the case because they were of very hard reaching , then once open I found that a wire from the RS-232 converter was loose. I ask Wendy, my contact, how to reconnect it. It took a couple of weeks before to get the answer. With the first try I had a big noise, smoke coming out and the fan stuck. After a few weeks of trying to get in touch with Wendy, she never answered. So I opened the oven: the bolts from the sliding back doors were not tighted so the doors had come out of the way, burning the selenoid, the oven was 220V but the fan was 110V. and the 2 thermical resistances wre burned.
That is my experience with www.tonhz.com.
But at the same time I had ordered a CNC machine SD2616, from SUDA, also China. Same problem. Very poor quality bolts and wires, and the worst of it: the machine can work perfectly, and suddenly get crazy and go with another toolpath, ruining the PCB. Then same story, I never got no solution to the problem. They said I had to pay the air ticket to their engineer (China-Honduras-China) or the freight to return that machine and get another one, which come out more expensive than the machine.
Good luck.
Cecilio

[gsattler]

We've had very good experiences with our Torch T200N reflow oven. As long as the board is in the center of the oven and doesn't fill up the entire baking space, we get really good results. Our next step is upgrading our stencil printer. We ordered an APS Goldstar SPR-45 screen printer a few weeks ago and will post results on the forum when it arrives.

[bandtank]

gsattler,

I am in the market for a low volume, quality reflow oven. Would you say the T200C/N meets this criteria? I don't currently do any BGAs, but I'd love to have the capability to do so in the future. Also, how big of a board can you put in the oven before you start getting bad results? I am interested in putting somewhat sizable boards into it or at least multiple smaller boards.

I'd also like to be able to make ROHS compliant boards. It is advertised as lead-free and I saw a few years ago that you mentioned it could do it, but I thought you could expand on your previous opinion as you're experience with the oven has grown quite a bit since then.

Thanks,
Tony

[gsattler]

bandtank,

The largest board that we have reflowed in the Torch T200N is a 9"x11" RoHS compliant assembly and we don't seem to have any issues reflowing that board. The T200N+ has been released recently and it adds a temperature sensor and closed loop temperature control. I have heard from Stencils/PCB Unlimited that the Torch T200N+ is actually pretty nice. You can get get excellent results with the regular T200N/C if you periodically check/calibrate the temperature profiles with an external thermometer, not that it drifts that much. We ended up spending the additional money to get the 'N' version over the 'C' version but haven't used the nitrogen functionality much since the nitrogen control is "full on" or "full off" and eats up a ton of nitrogen. You'd think that it wouldn't kill them to throttle the nitrogen with a controlled valve, I guess we need to get a nitrogen generator and then we won't have to worry about buying tanks all the time. Maybe the T300N+ will have a valve that can control nitrogen flow :) Dealing with Wendy at Torch was pleasant and smooth for us, but we haven't had any problems with the oven. We almost bought a stencil printer from Torch until we were talked into the APS Goldstar SPR-45. Their T1000 stencil printer looked pretty good. Don't expect the manual to read very well, their translations could use some serious help.

[bandtank]

Do you know if the T300C is going to be released soon or were you just making a joke?

Thanks for your reply. I'm considering buying one from Torch. They quoted $2000 which is over $1500 less than the quote I got from Manncorp for the same oven (they are the same, right?).

[blogger]

Can you share your current T200N reflow profile data for lead-free?

[gsattler]

Bandtank, the T300N comment was a joke, sorry, they just released the T200N+, so I think further improvements are a way off. Blogger, I'll meet with my reflow oven operator today and get the profile from him and upload it.

[bandtank]

Haha it's no problem. I just wanted to be sure before I submitted an order for the T200C+. I've thought about getting nitrogen but I guess I don't really have a need for it. Also, I can't find any objective reviews of the T200C vs T200C+.

This is the reply I got from Wendy at Torch regarding the differences:

Hello Anthony,
Yes, there are reflow oven T200C+ and T200N+.
The difference between T200C and T200C+ is the temperature measurement function. T200C+ has this function, T200C has no that.
The difference between T200N and T200N+ is the temperature measurement function. T200N+ has this function, T200N has no that.

please see quotation:
T200C+ USD2338 FOB Beijing

T200N+ USD3076 FOB Beijing

So the + versions have closed loop control of the temperature, but I would really like to see something more tangible in terms of a performance comparison. The datasheet is pretty generic also:

T200C+ Unique Features
With all advantage of T200C
With better airproof function, the temperature is more uniformity.
With emitting smoke function.
With purifying and filtering exhaust gas function.
With single channel temperature measurement (multi channels is optical), T200C+ has been the first-class reflow oven.

I am also rather curious about the software. Does it work well? The datasheet screenshots make it seem like one of two things: ugly GUI with good functionality and it does what it says it does, or ugly GUI and it sucks overall.

Sorry for asking so many questions and thank you for answering them. I haven't been able to find this information anywhere on the internet. If I end up getting one I'm going to make a page specifically detailing every little thing about it as I'm sure someone else out there is wondering the same things.

[gsattler]

bandtank, I spoke with my reflow oven operator and the engineer who setup the oven and they both mentioned that there is a 5-6°C consistent and repeatable error that you need to calibrate out by shifting the temperature profile to get the correct air temperature at the board. In my conversations with PCB/Stencils Unlimited they mentioned that this small variance agrees with what they have seen. You have to measure the air temperature with a reliable and calibrated thermometer to get good results with nearly any oven. The engineer who setup the reflow oven said that while the GUI is horrible, all the features work as advertised. Here are the configuration files and lead free solder profiles that we use.