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Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?
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Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by mrxtreme on Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Hello,

I'm shopping for an entry level pick and place for my prototyping work. I've been contracting the assembly out but I'd like to take control of it myself.

My boards have several fine line BGAs and a boat load of 0201 bypass caps on the backsides. I believe either of the machines will work for me if I order it with bottom vision.

I've read through many of the posts on this forum and there seems to be some indication that the Manncorp and MDC are one in the same machine (well at least the earlier models).

Are the FVX and the 7722 still the same machine? Do they still use the same feeders? Do they both run the same SW?

The Manncorp website says built in the USA with a new advanced vision SW while the MDC of course is from Japan.

Any issues with customs and/or duties importing a machine from Japan? It looks like there is a 2.5% duty on the import. Any other additional expenses? Approximate shipping costs?

Thanks in advance!

James

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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by bmw330i on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:02 am

MrXtreme wrote:Hello,

I'm shopping for an entry level pick and place for my prototyping work. I've been contracting the assembly out but I'd like to take control of it myself.

My boards have several fine line BGAs and a boat load of 0201 bypass caps on the backsides. I believe either of the machines will work for me if I order it with bottom vision.

I've read through many of the posts on this forum and there seems to be some indication that the Manncorp and MDC are one in the same machine (well at least the earlier models).

Are the FVX and the 7722 still the same machine? Do they still use the same feeders? Do they both run the same SW?

The Manncorp website says built in the USA with a new advanced vision SW while the MDC of course is from Japan.

Any issues with customs and/or duties importing a machine from Japan? It looks like there is a 2.5% duty on the import. Any other additional expenses? Approximate shipping costs?

Thanks in advance!

James


Hey James,

Super unclear. Not your message. Just Manncorps sales literature. I suspect they are rebranding either MDC or something else with the new model. Example: MDC 77xx and MannCorp 77xx were the same thing just rebranded and double the price for the unit and 4x the price for the reels etc. At least that is what my quotes came out to be.

I have an MDC 7712 I plan to sell in a Month or two. Lightly used. Looks almost new still. I bought it about a year ago.

It is being used right now to build up some inventory then I plan to sell it and take some time off and go sailing.

7712 means It has one side that can handle 28 (8mm) reels or a mixture of 8mm and other sizes. Bigger than 8mm will use up more than 1 slot so it will be less than 28 total then. The other side is cut tape that auto advances. 7722 means both sides handle reels.

It would come with 16 8mm Reels, computer, monitor, software etc. I bought the whole unit ready to go from MDC.

There is really good support now thanks to this forum and a very nice manual now that's readable. I taught myself to use it. I just did a 10 panel PCB a couple weeks ago and am right now about to do a 20 PCB panel. I had never used anything like it or done assembly like this so that should attest to how easy it is if you persist and read the manual. Secret really was fiducials...as explained in the manual. I'm now doing panels with ease. First try was a total success (again thanks to the new manual).

I just read the post and thought I'd throw it out there. I'm in Northern California Sacramento area. PM me for more details if you're interested. If you just want to ask questions about it ask away. It really is a great machine for entry to mid level. I don't know your timeframe. I'm in no rush just sounded like you were in the same position I was a bit over a year ago. This is a good first machine.
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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by bmw330i on Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:12 am

MrXtreme wrote:Hello,
...
Any issues with customs and/or duties importing a machine from Japan? It looks like there is a 2.5% duty on the import. Any other additional expenses? Approximate shipping costs?

Thanks in advance!

James


1. Issues with importing from Japan: Zero. MDC was incredibly friendly. It showed up nicely packed on a crate.
2. Due to the cost > 2500.00 it's got a duty to pay. Just that way with anything > 2500.00. I don't think it was duty type other than you had to declare it etc.
3. I think I paid 50.00 to an intermediary agent to clear it in customs for me. I think drove down with the paperwork, receipts, they put it in my truck there at the dock at the airport.

However, be aware, your state wants you to pay taxes on this thing. I'm in CA so I had to pay them their 7.75%. No different there vs buying from Manncorp. Again, I don't remember a 2.5% just the states tax. They wanted to know the amount to collect the sales taxes. Whatever the duty was it was nothing compared to sales taxes. Bottom line it was really a no issue to get it from Japan from MDC. Sure I didn't use VISA. Did a bank wire. But it was shipped air freight and showed with tracking in a couple days after shipping. They are legit, answer your questions, give great service and offer the reels like I said for about 1/4 the price of buying local. 350.00 reel (Japan) vs 1200.00 reels (USA)...same exact reel. Manncorp has to make a living I guess.

Not sure what Advanced vision is about. Sounds like a sales thing. Depends how deep your pockets are. Honestly if money were no object I would have just bought it from Manncorp. They have very happy customers. However, with the money I saved it meant the difference between having one and not having one.
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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by mrxtreme on Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:01 pm

Thanks for the informative replies.

MDC said that the machines both have the same mechanical structure which Manncorp purchase from MDC. Manncorp installs their own motors and electronics according to an email from Tadao at MDC. Software apparently is no longer the same.

Have fun sailing! Are you a bluewater sailor and going on an adventure?

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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by bmw330i on Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:41 pm

ApogeePanelSm.JPG
ApogeePanelSm.JPG (123.96 KiB) Viewed 1952 times
Good to know on the software / Manncorp stuff. I'd be interested to see the differences in the software.
Attached is a panel I did recently by just RTFM with MDC software and documentation. Each board is 2.5cm x 5cm. I used to hand place all this stuff. What a time saver.

Blue water sailing is the goal. It's a longtime plan to get out there with my family. My business is my passion but taking a year off to see the world from a boat just needs to happen before I find more excuses to postpone it. I'm sure the world will still be here when we get back :)
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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by Otatiaro on Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:09 pm

Hello,

bmw330i wrote:I have an MDC 7712 I plan to sell in a Month or two. Lightly used. Looks almost new still. I bought it about a year ago.


I'm about to buy an MDC PPP but I'd be very interested to get the détails of your 7712 as it would fit my need much better.

Only bad thing is I'm in France, so shipping would be quite expensive.

You can contact me at contact@digital-consulting.fr

Thomas.
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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by bmw330i on Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:27 am

Hi Thomas,

I just wrote you an email.

I'm a bit behind so I will be selling it in May/June now. I'd like to get 25,000 USD for it. It is complete. Full complement of reels, 8mm, 12mm, 18mm, 24mm + a whole side of cut tape blocks with auto-feed (as it picks up the part on cut tape it advances the tape). I have the orig. invoices from MDC and everything it came with.

Here it is in action a couple weeks ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UFqDicw ... jw&index=2

All hardly used really. I'd prefer a California buyer or Nevada, Oregon, within driving distance. I'd be glad to deliver for the cost of fuel to drive it to the buyer and give a couple hours of setup training.

-David
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Re: Manncorp FVX or MDC 7722? The same?

by soundscu on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:01 am

I bought a used 7722 a few years ago, and then upgraded it to be a FVX more than a year ago. In fact, I was the beta tester of both the new controls, and the upgrade/install procedure. It's been up and running long enough to declare it's a reliable workhorse. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Manncorp, The only reason I ended up being a beta tester was that I complained loudly about how fed up I was with the original 7722 and I wanted them to take it back.

THE FVX IMPROVEMENTS ARE HUGE, amazing, and totally, totally worth it. I love the new iteration. And I mean LOVE IT.

The upgrade process involved tearing out all the old electronics, motors and wiring, and replacing all of that stuff with new, vastly superior technology. I'm a skilled tech/engineer, and it took me 4 days to complete. The instructions were excellent.

Then, the new Windows-based software is expertly authored, intuitively laid out, and simple to use. The vision system is the best I've seen on any PnP machine at any price. There is almost no tinkering at all to set it up. For the bottom cam, you just tell it if the footprint is vertically symmetrical, horizontally symmetrical, or both. For side camera orientation, you do need to enter accurate dimensions.

My one and only gripe: I routinely use two components (out of hundreds) with a pin pattern that is not symmetrical on either plane. For one of those, the software guys provided a custom fix, so really it's not on the gripe list anymore. But for the other, I have to place it non-optically and trust that the machine itself will be accurate enough to get it right. This works about 80% of the time, so I have to inspect and nudge them sometimes, before the board goes into the oven.

All the feeders are identical and unchanged, as are the pistons and all other air/vacuum components. Only electrical and motor systems (and software) are replaced.

Top marks to Manncorp for really getting this upgrade right. The productivity improvement quickly pays for the cost many times over.

James Smith
RC4 Wireless / Soundsculpture Inc.
Raleigh, NC

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Please be positive and constructive with your questions and comments.