back in stock notices

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jeepeterson
 
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back in stock notices

Post by jeepeterson »

First, congratulations on the popularity of your feather products.

Twice in the last couple days I received back in stock notices for a product only to rush to order and found it already out of stock.

Is there any chance you could enhance the system to not require me to subscribe again if the product doesn’t stay in stock for at least 8 hours or I buy the product?

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

I'm not sure we could fit that into the existing notification system.

Notifications are sent out in batches, on a first-registered/first-notified basis. We put a delay between batches so people who've been waiting longest have the best chance of getting one before we sell out. If we still have stock after a delay, we send another batch of notifications based on the number left.

Automatic reinsertion would create zombies.. messages that never get seen because they're eaten by a spam filter, messages to inactive/forgotten accounts, etc. Those would create additional delays for people further back in the queue, while people who happen to check the product page at the right time are buying.

I'll mention it to the people who handle that code, but it's far from a simple change.

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jeepeterson
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by jeepeterson »

I don't know... I have been reading the internet long enough to know that software development is ridiculously easy... :)

Seriously, though, I don't think it is easy, I just don't want to keep signing up for the featherwings that go out of stock between me getting the mail and me checking my mail. :) I guess, I would really prefer preorders, but I know that has already been shot down...

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

Oh yeah.. taking preorders on supply-constrained goods is like trying to get water out of a boat by drilling holes in the bottom.

When the average person thinks 'preorder', they think 'first unit from the next available batch', not 'hmm.. how many people had that same idea before me?'

Scenario #1: honor preorders first: Almost all the pages in the shop have said "Out of Stock" for months. You ask* why, and we say, "with all the preorders, we probably won't be able to put any in the shop for the next year or so. If you sign up to preorder now, you're looking at a batch scheduled 22 weeks from now."

Scenario #2: try to balance preorders with the shop: You sign up for a preorder with a lead time of 22 weeks, then next week you see the same product on sale in the shop. You ask* why, and we say, "we allocate X% of production to preorders, but we also have to stock the shop to keep it from being perpetually sold out."

[* level of courtesy implied by the word 'ask' is left as an exercise for the reader]

Bottom line, nobody likes scarcity working to their disadvantage, and there's no way to distribute scarce resources that doesn't work to someone's disadvantage.

In terms of economic analysis, the most efficient solution is to leverage price elasticity: if the number of people who want to buy the product exceeds the number in stock, the asking price is too low. Jack up the price until the number of buyers equals the number of units available for sale.

People don't seem to like that one either though..

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jeepeterson
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by jeepeterson »

Maybe I am missing something in scenario one. Is it impossible to do larger production runs if you know they are sold?

Is that because of the statement (commitment?) that you make and test all products in house and the lines are running at full capacity?

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Franklin97355
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by Franklin97355 »

Is that because of the statement (commitment?) that you make and test all products in house and the lines are running at full capacity?
We are making them as fast as we can. Also remember the feathers are not the only product we make.

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jeepeterson
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by jeepeterson »

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a complaint or criticism... just a question. I'll take the response as "yes, we have a commitment to make everything in house and the lines are at capacity."

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Franklin97355
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by Franklin97355 »

It was not taken as a complaint and yes we are working as hard as we can to supply the things our customers want and use.

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

In a lot of cases, we're constrained by the number of parts we can get from the manufacturer.

If one of our products takes off and we need 10,000 more units, the maker might not have enough existing chips in their inventory. That means they have to contact the fab and get more.

The average lead time on making ICs, from cutting the wafers to shipping the reels, is about four months, and fabs usually have their production scheduled at about 80% capacity at least a year in advance. In most cases, the vendor we buy from will have to boost the numbers of their next pending order. A company may have production runs scheduled every couple of months, and can only expand their existing orders so far before the fab starts charging extra for use of their emergency capacity. Major changes in numbers will get pushed out to the negotiations for production 12 to 18 months ahead.

There are buffers in the process.. we don't wait until we've placed the last chip before calling the vendor for more parts, vendors do have some padding in their production schedules to deal with sudden demand, and we're now in a position to call Mouser or Digikey and say, "hey, we need a large bite out of your next order" if they happen to carry the parts we need.

Even so, it can take more than a year for the supply chains to fully adjust to a new level of demand. While that happens, there are dry spells where the pieces we need just don't exist yet.

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jeepeterson
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by jeepeterson »

Oh man... I got to the store in time for this batch. I did my shopping and sent in my order. Checked my e-mail and 2 minutes earlier, I got a different back in stock notice... :/

How about a feature where if you get a back in stock notice while you are in your cart, you get a pop-up that says "Another product you were waiting for was just stocked, would you like to add it to your cart?" :)

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Franklin97355
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by Franklin97355 »

I'll pass that to the people that take care of the system.

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lunacyworks
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by lunacyworks »

Did this ever get fixed? I just had it happen to me, had 20 items in stock, put in cart, was in cart while I started payment process (Paypal), paypal returned with error after after order saying it was in stock. Well to say the least I wasn't very happy after waiting and being on the list for 4 months for Pizero and having arrived at site with over 20 still in stock to be denied purchasing in this way. I ended up being able to purchase (less expensive BTW from Pihut I got 2 plus 2 camera adapters for $5 more than what it was going to cost with shipping from Adafruit, so in one way happy this error/operating method forced me to a different vendor)

In law school there is the theory of consideration, which is part of contract law. I would recommend the staff responsible for the shopping cart review the basics of this "legal" principle. Imagine I am in a store and put an item in my shopping cart, what happens if the manager walks over and takes the item out of my cart and gives it to someone else? Well under the legal principle this would be considered a breach of implied contract. Basically when it goes into my cart, I am in the process of purchasing it, and legally you do not have the right to remove it, without first my "consideration" or basically asking me if I still want to purchase it. Dell and other large companies handle by a pop up that ask them if they still wish to purchase x item they have x amount of time. Otherwise the item goes back to stock. Perhaps you could use the same setup?

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adafruit_support_mike
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by adafruit_support_mike »

IANAL, but I have friends who practice, and I've read a lot of business law.

A contract is an enforceable document that defines an exchange of consideration. Consideration is anything of value, generally summarized as money, property, or the promise not to exercise a legal right. By definition, a contract requires consideration on both sides. There's no such thing as a contract where only one side provides consideration, and there's no such thing as an exchange that one side can revoke without getting consent from the other. Actions that might be governed by a contract are called 'performance', and there's no such thing as a contract where only one side can demand performance.

Putting an item in your cart can't be defined as monetary consideration on your part because you haven't paid anything yet. It can't be defined as property consideration because you haven't given us anything that belongs to you, and you have no property rights over an item you haven't paid for. It can only be called consideration if doing so means you give up some legal right, like the right to take the item back out of your cart without paying for it. That would be consideration in the form of an enforceable promise to pay.

Courts are often called to rule on contracts that weren't written down. When doing so, they generally follow the principle that the performance of the parties involved defines the terms of a de facto contract.

We do not, and never have, imposed any penalty when people take items out of their cart. That performance indicates we do not, and never have, held the opinion that putting an item in a cart constitutes an enforceable promise to pay. If you've ever taken an item from our shop out of your cart without paying for it, that performance indicates you don't believe putting the item in your cart created an enforceable promise to pay either.

If you've never taken an item out of your cart without paying for it, good news: we won't hit you with a restocking fee or anything. Doesn't mean we owe you anything though.. you can't create a contract by presenting consideration and demanding what you want in return (one-sided presentation isn't exchange).

Reserving items while you have them in your cart would count as consideration on our part. We have the right to sell our inventory, and giving up the right to sell an item while it's in your cart would be a textbook example of consideration. That's independent of the money-for-property-rights contract enacted if you do pay for the item, so we still need to define the consideration you provide in exchange for us reserving items.

If you truly believe an implied contract exists, you can prove it by answering one question:

What specific (meaning 'specified by the contract') performance can we demand if you choose not to pay for an item you've put in your cart ... aka: what can we sue you for?

If you don't believe you're cheating us any time you remove an item from your cart (we certainly don't), you don't believe you're backing out of an obligation. No obligation, no consideration. No consideration, no contract. No contract, no obligation on our part to provide consideration in return.

The key point of the issue is something I mentioned in passing above: you have no property rights over an item you haven't paid for.

'Property' is defined as the right to posess, use, or dispose of an object to the exclusion of someone else's interests.

You want to obtain the right to exclude others from buying the item by putting it into your cart. More specifically, you want to possess our property to the exclusion of our interest in selling it to someone else. Not gonna happen.. expressing a revokable interest in buying something doesn't qualify as consideration suitable to make us give you that right, especially not when people are lining up to buy the thing.

Until you pay for the item, we hold the property rights, meaning we're legally entitled to dispose of it to the exclusion of your interests. If two people want to pay for the property rights to one item, someone will be excluding someone else's interests no matter what happens, and the seller gets paid the same either way.

We enact money-for-property-rights contracts in the order that people actually give us money. We do not exclude the interests of people who are prepared to give us money now in favor of the interests of people who are probably prepared to give us money later, but might not be, no promises.

Trust me, you'd be just as unhappy if you made an order seeing there were zero items in stock, then an hour later there were twenty in stock because someone emptied their cart.

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lunacyworks
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by lunacyworks »

see below
Last edited by lunacyworks on Tue May 17, 2016 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lunacyworks
 
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Re: back in stock notices

Post by lunacyworks »

The company by the act of offering for sale and item has open one side of the contract. By the act of me putting it in the cart I am now in the process of consideration. If there was not a time limit set on the initial offer then the offer would have to ask me before rescinding the offer. This is the basic of contract law 101 "Offer and acceptance". In fact I would argue the fact that I moved from consideration to accepting the offer when I started checkout process. Otherwise this would be bait and switch, offer me a product that you know you don't have, then once I come to your site your switch by removing that product in hope I will purchase another product. I am not accusing them of B&S, just flushing out the other side of the offer consideration argument.

So the issue here is the rescinding of an valid offer is only valid before acceptance. I signaled my acceptance when I started the checkout process. The company now has an obligation to allow me to complete my acceptance.

1. Company make offer
2. User learns of offer, starts process of consideration -> puts in shopping cart
3. [it is possible at this point for Company to rescind offer -> warns user that time is up and removes item]
4. User starts checkout process (user has accepted offer)
5. User completes payment (user completes acceptance and complete contract)

Now you would say how can 4 be acceptance and consideration? Contract law states once one party starts work on the outcome of the contract that can be part of consideration. It took effort, time and energy on my part to go thru the checkout process. I was in process of doing paypal to pay, I was working it... Now all that time and effort gone.. That is consideration right there. [See UCC Sec. 2-207(1) , which show that taking action - not pay demonstrates intent] Basically "When someone extends a contract offer to another party, the power to create a contract is placed in the hands of the other party. All the other party has to do is accept the offer."

....

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